Technical Noise after new stabiliser bar - 2007 Panda 1.1 Active

[brightie1]

Hi all, fitted two new stabiliser drop bars because the rubber was split on one of them.
No issue with fitting but since that fitting the nearside has made a tink tink sound over small road bumps. No noise before they were replaced.
Double checked fitting and all in fine and tight. No play when pressure is applied.
Found that the rear bush on the wishbone had perished so replaced the wishbone. The ball joint bolt sheared off so that was a lot of fun. No way that it was going to possible to drive it through despite plenty of plus gas, opening the joint with a cold chisel and giving plenty of hammer blows. Drilled it out in the end and the new one is fitted. But the damned tink tink noise over road bumps is still there.
No sign of any play in the strut pushing up and down with the wheel on.
Any thoughts please. Anti roll bar rubbers maybe?
Thanks
Ian

 

[koalar]

No idea at the moment

Any can make a noise, and they are hard to describe, a video might help

Single tink over a larger bumps

Rattle over rough ground

 

[brightie1]

Thanks.
A large bump will make the noise but so will uneven roads without obvious defects in them. Just a poor surface bad enough to make the suspension compress a bit.
Might just be a case of replacing things one by one until it goes I guess. Or living with it.
I might take the new stabiliser drop bar off just to check its not faulty in some way as it only started after it was fitted. But there is no play in it.
Having said that I once fitted a new Borg & Beck thermostat to the Panda, and the temperature continued to be all over the place. So assuming that there was some other issue I took it to an independent who diagnosed the new thermostat as defective, fitted a new one and charged accordingly. Lesson learned not to trust new items as definitely working.

 

[DTanner]

I think this is a useful video:



I suspect something is loose so I would do set out to find what:

1) A Bounce test:
With all wheels on the ground bounce the car on each corner in turn. Be aggressive.

Do you hear a noise – where is it located – what corner but also higher/lower in the corner?
If it helps have a person push and a person listen - but don't squash the listener!


2) A Play test:
Raise the offending corner (found from step 1) and carefully wrench the suspension, stabilising parts about to see if you can find any movement. Be careful that the car is well supported – don’t take risks!!! Use this to narrow it down.


Let us know if you find anything.

 

[koalar]

Torqued up properly


That not much leeway between tight enough not to bang in the oversized hole and snapping the thread off

It's one that can't be done by feel

No noise before they were replaced.

Has to be a hint

Pretty much have to

 

[brightie1]

Thanks both. 3 times Ive had it off the ground now and checked the tightness of the drop link bolts. In desperation even put the impact wrench on it today to ensure it was tight. No additional tightening occurred. I may have got away with one there from what Koalar was saying. It was already tight enough for the centre not to spin. It was torqued down initially.
I'll do the bounce/play test as was helpfully suggested. Video was helpful.
I'm thinking that it it is this bar which has somehow been moving about within the holes there may be some sign of brightening of the metal or wear so I'll undo it and have a look for that also.
Thanks again.

 

[koalar]

What torque are you using

 

[brightie1]

I was using 45nM as being towards the upper end of the range that seems to apply to most cars. Appreciate that an impact wrench will apply more than that and it was reckless.

 

[koalar]

I was using 45nM as being towards the upper end of the range that seems to apply to most cars. Appreciate that an impact wrench will apply more than that and it was reckless.

Unbolt and torque them up again

Once they stood, you can't reliably re tighten them due to stiction, they have to be torqued in one smooth movement

They should be 50Nm

I'd be surprised if it's anything else, other than the drop links, it wasn't there before you fitted them, it's a symptom of drop links, did you check the size against the original, I been supplied the wrong length before now, could be fail on fit also

I have fitted the cheapest plastic drop links successfully, but they don't last the same as the OEM ones,

 

[The Panda Nut]

Torqued up properly


That not much leeway between tight enough not to bang in the oversized hole and snapping the thread off

It's one that can't be done by feel


Has to be a hint

Pretty much have to

Agree, probably not tight enough. I wouldnt know how to do this without an impact wrench.

 

[brightie1]

Thanks, I will do. I'll take the whole thing off and look for defects too.
Yep, both sides were done with Quinton Hazell replacements and fitted well. Other side is fine and was torqued the same.
I just can't see any movement whatsoever in those links but when I undo it it may become more obvious. The only other difference is that the nearside (which is making the noise) had a Monroe new strut about 15 years back whereas the offside still has the original. Wonder if the hole is bigger. Not that it should make much difference if the nut is tight.
Thanks all. Think it has to be gardening tomorrow instead of cars but I'll report back in due course.

 

[jrkitching]

Anti roll bar rubbers maybe

Maybe.

Depending on how you support the front suspension, removing and refitting the droplinks can put additional stress on the anti roll bar bushes.

When I do this job, once the wheel is off the ground, I like to put a second jack under the front strut and raise it just enough so that there's no tension or compression in the droplink. This is also worth doing if you're testing for free movement in the droplinks; if you just have the wheel hanging down with the car jacked up, it can mask any play that might be present.

 

[DaveMcT]

Mrs Dave's 1.2 rattles from the left side. Not enough to worry about but I changed the drop links anyway. Rattle is still there. It's cause by the brake calliper. Ive not been able to find anything loose but MoT test was not worried about it and car drives as it should.

My Multijet had an intermittent clunk that I struggled to find. I thought it was the strut top bearing or the spring seat so did some work up there to find no change. It then failed MoT with a "major fault" on LHS bottom ball joint. I knew that was OK as its not very old so spent considerable time with levers to replicate the problem. It was obvious when I did find it, but still not easy to find. The ball join pin clamp in the wheel hub carrier was not clamping the ball joint pin. I shimmed the pin to lock it into place. The car passed the MOT and fitted a "used" replacement hub carrier.

I can only assume the car had been driven a considerable distance with the clamp bolt loose. I always fully tighten them but that was clearly not doing the job.

 

[koalar]

Have you managed to sorted the source of the noise

 

[brightie1]

Hi, not had a chance to look yet. Some kind person broke part of my rear fence down and stole stuff out of the garden. So I now have fence posts to concrete in, and panels to fit. And a security camera to fit looking down the garden.
Thats probably going to occupy me for a few days. Being 66yo and trying to do it on my own (wife died 3 years ago ), I find that I need recovery time before I can start again. Age isn't kind.
In the meantime, I now have a long pry bar for investigating.
Thanks all for your help.

 

[DTanner]

Sorry to hear of the challenges @brightie1. When you get to the car we will be around to help. Let us know how it goes.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Hi, not had a chance to look yet. Some kind person broke part of my rear fence down and stole stuff out of the garden. So I now have fence posts to concrete in, and panels to fit. And a security camera to fit looking down the garden.
Thats probably going to occupy me for a few days. Being 66yo and trying to do it on my own (wife died 3 years ago ), I find that I need recovery time before I can start again. Age isn't kind.
In the meantime, I now have a long pry bar for investigating.
Thanks all for your help.

Wrap it round the tea leafs head. I would. Sorry to hear of your woes.

 

[A3jeroen]

Pry bar may be handy if your guest returns...

gr J

 

[brightie1]

Hi all, said that I would update after having a better poke around with a pry bar.
Firstly apologies for previously saying that the noise was only there after fitting the new stabiliser bar. It must have been there before but I guess I was listening harder for issues.
Nothing I have just found was amiss with the stabiliser bar, any ball joints, bushes etc.
Believe that I have found the issue though. The two parts of shock absorber dust cover are just falling about all over the place. The white plastic bit has an elongated hole now so that there is pretty considerable sideways as well as up and down movement. It rattles significantly when moved and Im pretty sure that this is the tink tink sound that I'm hearing. The damper piston under the cover still looks in good nick and there is no leakage.
Advice please on whether its essential that I remove the whole shock absorber to replace it.
The shock absorber was originally fitted by a "mobile mechanic" in 2011 (the car first registered in Jan 2007) following a MOT failure for the shock absorber leaking. He initially fitted it incorrectly and it failed the MOT for a second time so he had another attempt. So there is every chance that the dust cover was incorrectly fitted 14 years ago.

Secondly, whilst writing can I ask you kind guys another question please.
The cam belt/water pump etc needs routinely replacing. Im happy to give that a go having watched heaven knows how many YouTubes and having read threads on this Forum.
My question concerns the engine number. Ive read threads on the Forum about location of the engine number. There is no way that the heat shield is going to come off. Its already rotted through in one place around one of the bolts. If I grind the bolts off is it essential that the heat shield is replaced?
The log book shows the engine number as being 3597356. That seems a late number for a Jan 2007 engine? or can I rely upon that?
Is the engine number on the VIN plate in the boot because if so that number isn't replicated anywhere?
It was my late wifes car and she bought it in early 2010 with 23,000 miles on it and the engine looked age appropriate then for being original.
It has a round filler cap.
Thanks very much.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Its needed. T can be bought separately. Get a genuine part not someting like KYB parts as some dont fit properly!!. You do need to remove the strut to fit this.
When loose they can make a lot of noises. My KYB parts werenot compatible with the newshocks I fitted and it souded awful. Fiat part did the trick from Shop4parts.co uk