I have a 2009, 59 reg 1.1 basic (ie no A/C etc) Panda.
Two weeks ago got in it & saw the dash lights all lit - even though I hadn't put the key in the ignition! Started car, all OK.
Later same day, wipers started up on their own, control stalk made no difference, stopped when I switched ignition off.
A few days later, got in, turned the key, lights up, immob light off, no response from starter. Changed battery for one I keep on trickle charge, still no response. Had similar prob with Punto, was engine earth lead, looked deteriorated, so jumped with a wire, fired up & started fine. Fitted new earth strap.
Few days later, engine refused to start, cranked over fine.
Checked - no spark, no fuel, pump off - immob light going out.
Tried easy start, spare coils no difference.
Checked pick-up ring, taped spare key into it, no difference.
Took off the engine ECU, checked internally - no evidence of anything wrong (I have a lot of experience with electrical repairs).
Checked as far as I could connections to the engine ECU, power, earth etc.
Hot-wired the fuel & ignition circuits, fuel pump coming on, still no spark, assume they're not being 'switched' by the ecu.
Took off Body computer to check, awkward to dismantle, checked fuses etc.
Immob light goes off after a few seconds, I assume this means that aspect is OK?
Now considering changing ecu's or sending off to be sorted - anyone advise which is most likely to be at fault?
Have seen ecu sets on 'auction site' - none of these exactly match the numbers on both units. Some match the engine ECU, some the body computer, is this a problem? Now close do the numbers need to be?
Is there a problem if the car they came off is different to mine eg A/c, 1.2 engine, front spots (been told this can shut down the body computer if it doesn't detect them?
Any help appreciated, thanks for reading, Merry Xmas!!
Robin

Hello and welcome to the forum - and Merry Christrmas!

The ECU will be individually programmed to the car. You can't just buy another one off ebay, plug it in and have everything working again.

The new one will need to be virginised, and then it will need to be reprogrammed to recognise your car.

But if the problem is with some other component, like a sensor or the immobiliser, even reprogramming a virgin ECU won't be enough.

You need to properly diagnose what's actually wrong before removing the existing ECU.

There's a good chance that the problem is actually with one of the connectors; they're known to give trouble, specifically on the 1.1.

Hi Robin

Waterfilled electrics.. are the duckbills clear?

Not sure what easystart would do with no sparks though?

interesting First post

as someone else has the das light up at the moment which is the First I have seen

replaced the battery
replaced the earth strap
changed the coils
ECU been apart
Body computer been off
pick up ring been out
hot wired the fuel system
hot wired the ignition system
tried easy start even though there is no spark ?


where to start


are we fixing the original fault


battery been off so now no stored error codes


or a fault due to one or more of the above


except for the melted lights connector on the body computer and weak ECU connector on the 1.1 ECU fixed with a cable tie we haven't had a single genuine ECU failure


normally random electrical faults are down to water getting into the engine Bay fuse box


where did you run the fuel and ignition hot wires to and from ?



as it started with the wipers and dash I suspect the scuttle been full of water recently

My thoughts are water ingress.
You've not mentioned any dampness when looking at the body computer, so the engine bay fusebox needs a careful inspection. Lift it out and check the connections underneath, for damp, or any burning. The engine ECU connection has been reported to display poor connections, the cable is probably a mm too short, btu you can't fix that. Lift the connector out, check all the pins are secure, not loose. Check also that they're clean.

Check the main battery cables, positive to the starter and alternator, and the earth to car body and engine. These, especially the earth, corrode internally, so look ok but either break the connection, or make a high resistance. Electricity that cannot flow where it should will find another path if possible, which can show all sorts of random issues.

Check the ignition switch makes and breaks connections as it should.

Check the drain tubes below the windscreen (duckbills) are clear, and that the chamber below the screen is empty.

Many thanks to all those who have responded (even though it's christmas!)
All the info has been helpful!
More details (didn't want to make the original thread too long!)

My scanner showed two codes: u1600 - immobiliser fault and another relating to high engine temperature. Multiecuscan then gave these as 'old codes' with an extra one P0230 - fuel system relay. No such relay (only multijet I believe) but checked R9 which feeds fuel & ignition. I hot-wired by bypassing R9 straight to the pump & ignition fuses. This seems to me to be where the issue is as R9 coil's earth goes via the engine ecu.
Cleared these codes, only the last re-occurs when cranked over.
This led me to check the fuel pump, which is working fine directly wired to 12v.
This check also obviated the impact switch.
Checked all sensors by replacement except the 'anti-knock' which is a 'B' to get to and which I wouldn't think would stop it from starting.

We have had a lot of rain - the engine ecu connectors did seem quite dampish, did some drying with cotton buds but will look again & at the fuse box. I've detached this to check the wiring to various fuses/relays, can this be opened up in any way?

Anyone clear about replacing the ecu's - I know you can't just plug another on in, but I have a panda 'for spares' which ran fine last time I tried it, and thinking of swapping the whole lot over, but it has A/c & remote locking - will it be a problem?

BTW, I have 30+ years experience of Alfas, Lancias & Fiats & so far have been able to sort out anything but this has me stumped!
Thanks for all help & suggestions!

Happy Christmas,

Check crank position sensor resistance and wiring?

Does the fuel pump run for a few seconds when key first turned to run?

Good luck

P0230 code relates to fuel pump relay and circuit , I believe your car does have this circuit , so code could be a clue to issue.

When you replaced the battery ground lead did you replace all of it- I'm wondering if there is a problem with battery negative to body lead/connection.

This is in addition to the sensible suggestions regarding possible water ingress.

Someone in forum had a very very similar problem with their panda (fuel pump not priming etc no start) Dave?
Despite looking deeply he Didn't find root cause it just started running again.

you not going to get anywhere if u1600 is an active code?

jackwhoo said:

P0230 code relates to fuel pump relay and circuit , I believe your car does have this circuit , so code could be a clue to issue.

When you replaced the battery ground lead did you replace all of it- I'm wondering if there is a problem with battery negative to body lead/connection.

This is in addition to the sensible suggestions regarding possible water ingress.

Someone in forum had a very very similar problem with their panda (fuel pump not priming etc no start) Dave?
Despite looking deeply he Didn't find root cause it just started running again.

Click to expand...

This one ?

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/418078-1-3-diesel-refusing-start-7.html?418078=#post4220861

There should be a relay to control the fuel pump.
When you first turn the key, the pump should run for a few seconds to pressurise the system. It should then run again while cranking, and continue if the engine starts. If the engine stops, the pump will stop. This is triggered either by oil pressure, or by the crank sensor.
Check the pump is energised correctly at these conditions.
A dead crank sensor may allow the engine to crank, fire, but not continue to run when the key is released, or may prevent starting. If pump is operating correctly, check or replace the crank sensor, they do fail suddenly.

ECUs are generally very reliable. If you do decide to replace the ECU, you'll need both body and engine computers, and the key from the donor, as the microchip code is held in both computers, and need to match.
If the donor is a higher spec, it will work. Features that are unused will remain dormant, and some can be 'switched off' using MES, so they don't throw errors. Lower spec ECUs generally do not contain the programming for features not fitted to the car at factory, so a lesser spec ECU will leave some features inoperable.
The 'new' ECU will cause the mileage to flash and will need the mileage updated to match. The mileage covered is held in the instrument pack and the body computer, and if different can only be updated to the higher of the two.

varesecrazy said:

This one ?

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/418078-1-3-diesel-refusing-start-7.html?418078=#post4220861

Click to expand...

Hi Charlie,
Not that one but very interesting.
This one https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=480925


100HP wont start no warning lights showing

No resolution on that one but does state everything Dave tried before it healed its self.

Cheers

Jack

I did follow that at the time.. but didnt contribute.

Our panda needed NOTHING electrical in 15 years.. no bulbs..( just batteries )

Whereas : Ive done some mj work..

koalar said:

you not going to get anywhere if u1600 is an active code?

Click to expand...

will you get any spark or fuel with

U1600- Electronic key-immobiliser system fault

still present ???

My 100HP refused to start after a long lay-off due to The Coov lockdown. It was showing steering errors on the LCD display but no engine warning lamp.

Battery charged.
Checked all relays with a 9V PP battery they all clicked.
All fuses pulled and checked with test light - all ok.
Ignition switch stripped and rebuilt - nothing untoward
Fuel pump hotwired - working fine.
Pulled off steering column covers and under driver's side to check wiring - nothing unusual.
Tried to get MES to read - It kept coming up no car connected. Assumed it was the software installation or cables. Then had the sense to check it on wife's car and it worked fine.

Ah Ha !!! ODB port has no power.

Swapped OBD relay with fog lights relay and tried a spare relay still nothing from MES.
Basically gave up.

Later in the day, went back to try again with MES, fuses and relays. The car started and has been perfect ever since. MES worked fine - no faults found.

Maybe it was a dodgy relay supplying the driver's side fuse box but can't confirm as it's now all working.

Thanks for all the support so far.
Here's an update:

Dried out the fusebox with hairdryer.

Checked all sensors by substitution with 'good' ones.
Checked all wiring to sensors from engine ECU.
Replaced both engine & body ecu's from 'spare' Panda, with key taped in p/u ring.
Checked timing belt - intact - compression at cylinder 1 - fine.

Still not starting.
Fuel pump rums for a few seconds then cuts out. Fuel at the schrader valve.
Still no spark at plugs.

Was using 'free version' of MES but got the full version - scanned all the ecu's, no errors!!

Put original ecu's back & re-scanned - no errors!
HELP!

Check crank position sensor and wiring.

People report coil pack loom issues on 1.1's..

Worth checking the many threads related to this..

Logic would say it MUST be 'under the bonnet' if swapping ECU's didnt fix the non.spark problem

summery

replaced the battery
replaced the earth strap
changed the coils
ECU been apart
Body computer been off
pick up ring been out
hot wired the fuel system
hot wired the ignition system
tried easy start
Dried out the fusebox with hairdryer.
Checked all sensors by substitution with 'good' ones.
Checked all wiring to sensors from engine ECU.
Replaced both engine & body ecu's from 'spare' Panda, with key taped in p/u ring.
Checked timing belt - intact - compression at cylinder 1 - fine.
Fuel pump rums for a few seconds then cuts out. Fuel at the schrader valve.
Still no spark at plugs.
re-scanned - no errors


dried out the fuse box implies there was water in it ????


are the sensors getting power ? does the oil pressure light come on and go off when cranking