Yellow - FS Project Seicento 2

[M21MFS]

To say I'm a bit gutted is an understatement. I really did think we had it this time.

As far as I can tell we have a few options.

1) Troubleshoot. Which could mean many more hours and more worryingly £££ spent without being able to see any improvement (remember the symptons - fine idling in the yard this morning and was not smelling rich)
2) Revert to standard engine - again, this could mean more hours and £££ without seeing any return.
3) Track it as is. The engine pulls fine and emissions aside I'm sure it'd be a good runner on the track. Could always do an engine swap for something more, err, interesting at a later date.

Really not sure where to go from here. Really not sure.

 

[Stuart]

I think the folks that are financially involved in this need to sit down and decide on maybe 2 viable options, then the vote on the 2 to be put to the forum, BUT, whatever the decision, the money side of things needs to be more spread throughout the forum, one or 2 folk cannot keep putting into this as seen so far. Granted folk have been putting in valuable time and effort too. But I think its best that a sabbatical is taken from the project untill a decision is made.

 

[lkc]

A sabbatical is going to happen anyway as we all need a break.

I can't tell you how disappointed I am by today's result and there will be a very large g&t poured when I get home tonight. However I also don't want us to make any rash decisions without getting a better idea of why the CO2 emissions have pretty much tripled between the original test and the retest when all that has been changed is the lambda sensor.

 

[mrcinquecento]

Confused as hell

there's just no reason whatsoever for the co levels randomly trippling in the space of a week when the car has barely moved. It's borderline impossible.

i do still have a gut feeling that there's a vacuum leak, but i doubt that'd be the root cause, especially when it had that theoretical leak last time it went in anyway. Shouldn'taffect co anyhoo.
abyss113 did the ecu have a mccritch?

 

[Stuart]

Thats what I dont understand either, its not as if it JUST made it under the co2 and hc, it was below for the whole test, only thing I can assume is that 2 wrongs almost made a right when I took it for a test (ie.lambda and something else) and now we have sorted the lambda it has thrown something else wildly out.

Fck knows.... I fckn hate cars!!

 

[M21MFS]

The biggest issue I have just now is not knowing if a repair is fixing emissions.

Replace any other part and you know if its fixed or not.

This is where, I guess, the idea of swapping engines or a strip and full rebuild kicks in. Sadly its a huge undertaking though and majorly ****s up any time scale we have

 

[Boydie2007]

The last time I had this problem with a car failing emissions test a new exhaust fixed it.

I tried an emission reducing additive it failed, the support bracket was rusty so the mechanic suggested a spot weld incase there was air getting in and it still failed and in the end we replaced the exhaust and wouldn't you know it, a pass.

 

[Boydie2007]

I'll ask my friends advice tomorrow.

Boydie

 

[Stuart]

It could be that the cat is farked... has the pickup got one we can swap?

 

[lkc]

Confused as hell

there's just no reason whatsoever for the co levels randomly trippling in the space of a week when the car has barely moved. It's borderline impossible.

i do still have a gut feeling that there's a vacuum leak, but i doubt that'd be the root cause, especially when it had that theoretical leak last time it went in anyway. Shouldn'taffect co anyhoo.
@abyss113 did the ecu have a mccritch?

what's a mccritch and what does it do? Sorry, you're going to have to put it in laymens terms though

Thats what I dont understand either, its not as if it JUST made it under the co2 and hc, it was below for the whole test, only thing I can assume is that 2 wrongs almost made a right when I took it for a test (ie.lambda and something else) and now we have sorted the lambda it has thrown something else wildly out.

Fck knows.... I fckn hate cars!!

That's what I've been wondering in which case we need to work out what made the lambda under-read the CO2 levels. I am also worried that a new lambda only just passed on the second fast idle...

Bear in mind I know only the basics about engines so play nice if I'm asking stupid questions

It could be that the cat is farked... has the pickup got one we can swap?

I'm pretty sure the cat was checked by several people and deemed ok. I think it was Johno933 and marti155 and possibly others

 

[mrcinquecento]

Engine doesn't need replaced. It's not the engine that's at fault, it's some external thing.

A mccritch is an aftermarket ecu chip that alters fuelling, basically like a very minor remap. But it doesn't do much to emissions, never heard of a single cento fail on emissions because of a mccritch chip.

There's something not adding up, we're missing something obvious i feel, it passed the lambda test on the second fast idle test, so we know lambda is fine, there has to be a heat related issue if it's passing on the test it would be hotter on, i'm thinking it's maybe not far fetched to think there is a tiny exhaust leak somewhere. Doesn't explain everything, but it's starting point.

The co reading is what's bugging me, everything before was comfortably in range, for that to suddenly fly off the scale is very, very odd, perhaps the ecu got confused with the ****ed lambda and now it;s working, that's what has now thrown it off the scale.

I propose we take off every single vacuum pipe for an inspection to trace this hunting issue first of all as a starting point

 

[mrcinquecento]

I've just had a thought from reading Mings post on FF

See when there was some initial starting problems when you first got the car? it was traced to some earth around the crank sensor was it not? i wonder if that is throwing crank signal off or as ming says, the sensor itself is duff....

 

[M21MFS]

I was just having the same thought.

I remember the HGT cutting out....but just as I logged back in here I remember the HGT eventually refused to start all together. Would explain a LOT to be fair.

Should be quite easy to check the wiring and fix that/replace the sensor? Maybe just maybe this will lead us to a possible source.

 

[mrcinquecento]

the sensor is just a 10mm bolt and a clip on plug i want to know what the earthing problem was, i wonder if the sensor was duff/dying and earthing it is masking the problem a bit....

 

[M21MFS]

lewisp would be able to say what was done. I know he pointed out a couple of bits of wiring that he wanted to tidy up and were tidied up.

 

[lkc]

Current plan is to have this weekend off as we all need a break and the weather is going to be shite anyway. After that we'll look at the crank sensor, examine the exhaust for leaks and maybe some of the other things that have been suggested both here and on FF if there's time. We also need to give the car a thorough going over to make sure there's nothing else it can fail on if we put it through again.

 

[Stuart]

Lol there is nothing else tho, cant see it being crank sensor, cos its running fine, my money is on the cat..

 

[Malfunction]

I agree as last time I was there it had a aftermarket manifold on it so is the second section holding the cat standard or aftermarket?

Normally when people go to the bother of putting on a nice manifold they change other things as well namely a second standard mod is to put a better flowing cat on so the exhaust flows better and engine produces more power but this can also affect emissions slightly?

 

[lkc]

Crank sensor appears to be favourite over on FF http://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/331281-project-fs-sei-6.html?p=3398201 however I'm happy to take the advice from those who know far more about cars than me

Although I still have a niggling feeling that the cat was checked previously and thought to be fine...

Anyway, there may be a slightly longer sabbatical than planned for Yellow as something else has come up. It is 'cento related but not FS project related thankfully

No more broken cars in the shed!

Just in case I've not said that recently :laugh:

 

[clock34]

id say crank sensor. they slowely fail then just dont work all togeather..... could also need cleaning though or re-aligning...


also. ive had two seicentos pass emmisions with no cat at all. so even having one is going to be enough with good plugs, and a new lambda....

also if its spi check the fuel pressure screw hasnt been screwed in as it will put more fuel in/over fuel. another very common thing for people to do