Which car are you buying this year?

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Which car are you buying this year?

Ha, just found this thread :D

1st choice: smart 451 cabrio with the 84 HP engine

Having just come away from 23 years of smart car ownership (various 450's, various 451's and finally the 453 for the last 10 years), I'd go for a 90HP (898cc turbo) 453 with the DCT option.

The 451 is fine, but the 453 (especially with the DCT) is really cool
 
Having just come away from 23 years of smart car ownership (various 450's, various 451's and finally the 453 for the last 10 years), I'd go for a 90HP (898cc turbo) 453 with the DCT option.

The 451 is fine, but the 453 (especially with the DCT) is really cool
I was thinking about the 453, looks too cheap plastic and like and old clio to me :(

So I got the 451 84 HP model ;) The previous one was the 450 61 HP, my GF has a SB2 (90 HP) roadster coupé :)
 
but now I think they're overpriced mid range cars
That's pretty much exactly what they are. Outside of the 9/11 which is an actual icon in its class / category amidst its competition, everything else, well, the real luxury / budget / mid range car makers usually have something better / nicer at a more reasonable price - be it cheaper for normal cars or be it pricier in the ultra-luxury end. I know collectors (actual collectors with multistory garages and portfolios that worry more about the value of the collection and it going UP over decades - not YouTube channel owners) would favour some niche Ferrari any day over a 90s onwards VAG car as small details even such as some stupid one-off engine piece only made for that car / engine makes it worth more than something sharing parts with.. ...a Golf.
I have mixed views on the coming Chinese cars. I can remember the big fanfare of the 1980s when Nissan, Honda and Toyota opened giant car factories in the UK, it felt like quite a coup for the country. So would it be so bad if we got loads of cars from the Chinese? Putting tariffs on Chinese cars would be protecting who exactly? The German car companies, Japanese?
Yeah, people draw comparisons to the Japanese brands entering the US and Europe as starting off fairly basic, cheap, not really desirable. It's nothing like that with the Chinese though. Unfortunately, it's all to do with its government. At the end of the day, Japan wasn't subsidising the prices to destroy our domestic brands (the UK ones were good enough at that themselves), they were cheap because, they were basic. They also didn't use slave labour or child labour to cut costs. That's why you can be sure the CCP companies will never open a factory in the free world. Wouldn't be able to make the sort of humans rights violations that make it all possible. And unfortunately, you just can't separate regime governments like that from things like companies how we can in the EU / US and free world. They're always involved. They're smart. They are coming for the worlds car makers and they'll use destruction pricing to do it.

Our government will simply see low priced cars and think it's some sort of solution to the 'cost of living' crisis. Sadly, 'cost of living' has so much more gravitas than just money in those parts of the world...

Sadly people are flocking to them. Each one of them will indeed, learn their lesson when bits fall off that never fell off before on previous cars, and when their modern SUV has the fuel consumption of a 90s GM (since they tend to use old engines like those in them in the case of MG). And when they're seeing things like new gearboxes being invoiced for under warranty - fine since it's free - but not fine in a few years time when it's going to fail again and their problem to pay for. But until then, can the big companies hold out? Hopefully so...

Honestly if it was any other country without the brutal, horrific atrocities of the CCP I'd welcome any new car brand with open arms if they're genuinely innovating, finding ways to produce the same or better at a better price than the likes of GM / Ford / Toyota and all - then they'd deserve the cash. But the skulls they're stepping on to do this, how our society who claim to care so much about rights and freedom and the planet can go around protesting every weekend, but can't see what they're doing here with their wallets, is astounding to me. Not a big fan of the Korean brands myself, but they've done their 'invasion' right, much as I personally wouldn't want to sacrifice some of the quality things they've done, they aren't violating anyone by doing it other than the profit of the competitors which is fair game. Same with the buyers, not contributing to anything nasty in the grand scheme.

Yeah yeah, only cars, who cares. But it's not. Look at phones, same thing, £50 smartphones... the civilised country companies can't even compete with that - how do you think they're getting them that cheap? State subsidised. We're creating / we've created a monster Say what you want about Trump, but he's bloody right to keep them out - despite how crap GM is lol Any other governments and the EU, also perfectly reasonable to take precautions. They're not keeping out fair competition here, they're keeping out a monster.

I'd rather drive a VAG car than some of the crap I'm seeing on the road coming from there. And all our domestic brands and companies can do is bend over backwards to try and enter their market. Bizarre. Looks like Apple will be the biggest case study in the near future as a 101 lesson in why putting your eggs in that basket is a no-go. May they and their shareholders learn it hard..
 
That's pretty much exactly what they are. Outside of the 9/11 which is an actual icon in its class / category amidst its competition, everything else, well, the real luxury / budget / mid range car makers usually have something better / nicer at a more reasonable price - be it cheaper for normal cars or be it pricier in the ultra-luxury end. I know collectors (actual collectors with multistory garages and portfolios that worry more about the value of the collection and it going UP over decades - not YouTube channel owners) would favour some niche Ferrari any day over a 90s onwards VAG car as small details even such as some stupid one-off engine piece only made for that car / engine makes it worth more than something sharing parts with.. ...a Golf.

Yeah, people draw comparisons to the Japanese brands entering the US and Europe as starting off fairly basic, cheap, not really desirable. It's nothing like that with the Chinese though. Unfortunately, it's all to do with its government. At the end of the day, Japan wasn't subsidising the prices to destroy our domestic brands (the UK ones were good enough at that themselves), they were cheap because, they were basic. They also didn't use slave labour or child labour to cut costs. That's why you can be sure the CCP companies will never open a factory in the free world. Wouldn't be able to make the sort of humans rights violations that make it all possible. And unfortunately, you just can't separate regime governments like that from things like companies how we can in the EU / US and free world. They're always involved. They're smart. They are coming for the worlds car makers and they'll use destruction pricing to do it.

Our government will simply see low priced cars and think it's some sort of solution to the 'cost of living' crisis. Sadly, 'cost of living' has so much more gravitas than just money in those parts of the world...

Sadly people are flocking to them. Each one of them will indeed, learn their lesson when bits fall off that never fell off before on previous cars, and when their modern SUV has the fuel consumption of a 90s GM (since they tend to use old engines like those in them in the case of MG). And when they're seeing things like new gearboxes being invoiced for under warranty - fine since it's free - but not fine in a few years time when it's going to fail again and their problem to pay for. But until then, can the big companies hold out? Hopefully so...

Honestly if it was any other country without the brutal, horrific atrocities of the CCP I'd welcome any new car brand with open arms if they're genuinely innovating, finding ways to produce the same or better at a better price than the likes of GM / Ford / Toyota and all - then they'd deserve the cash. But the skulls they're stepping on to do this, how our society who claim to care so much about rights and freedom and the planet can go around protesting every weekend, but can't see what they're doing here with their wallets, is astounding to me. Not a big fan of the Korean brands myself, but they've done their 'invasion' right, much as I personally wouldn't want to sacrifice some of the quality things they've done, they aren't violating anyone by doing it other than the profit of the competitors which is fair game. Same with the buyers, not contributing to anything nasty in the grand scheme.

Yeah yeah, only cars, who cares. But it's not. Look at phones, same thing, £50 smartphones... the civilised country companies can't even compete with that - how do you think they're getting them that cheap? State subsidised. We're creating / we've created a monster Say what you want about Trump, but he's bloody right to keep them out - despite how crap GM is lol Any other governments and the EU, also perfectly reasonable to take precautions. They're not keeping out fair competition here, they're keeping out a monster.

I'd rather drive a VAG car than some of the crap I'm seeing on the road coming from there. And all our domestic brands and companies can do is bend over backwards to try and enter their market. Bizarre. Looks like Apple will be the biggest case study in the near future as a 101 lesson in why putting your eggs in that basket is a no-go. May they and their shareholders learn it hard..

Lots of valid points there that I wouldn't disagree with. I see the slave labour in China, the human rights abuses, and it irks me, but as an individual I have no solution to the problem, i can't simply stop buying chinese goods because they're everywhere. And so for me taking a stand against the car manufacturers seems futile if I can't avoid buying a Chinese made TV or microwave.

In an ideal world governments would behave in a moral fashion, but we've seen in the last 15 years anything but moral governments in the UK (in my opinion). The US government is mad, the Russians too...Playing devils advocate here but did you know that every year around 50,000 Americans die by "gun death" (murder, suicide, accident). It would be easy to attribute all of those deaths to the American government for being immorally bought by the gun lobby.

Anyway, back to cars! The reliability of Chinese cars is terrible like you've described, so its just as well I won't be buying them any time soon, if ever. I can remember in the 1980s feeling a bit aggrieved at the cache that German brands seemed to be able generate, while the British cars stumbled and dwindled. So to see the German car industry suffering now does give me a certain sense of schadenfreude (pay back).

I don't have any answers or strongly held views here. I'm happy with my Italian built Puntos and Fiat 500X :)
 
I’m guessing he’s on another rant about a country other than the UK, or trumps USA…presumably the same old tropes, bet he’s never been to China, or for that matter the US…I’m glad I blocked him, so much hate bred from ignorance
 
Lots of valid points there that I wouldn't disagree with. I see the slave labour in China, the human rights abuses, and it irks me, but as an individual I have no solution to the problem, i can't simply stop buying chinese goods because they're everywhere. And so for me taking a stand against the car manufacturers seems futile if I can't avoid buying a Chinese made TV or microwave.

In an ideal world governments would behave in a moral fashion, but we've seen in the last 15 years anything but moral governments in the UK (in my opinion). The US government is mad, the Russians too...Playing devils advocate here but did you know that every year around 50,000 Americans die by "gun death" (murder, suicide, accident). It would be easy to attribute all of those deaths to the American government for being immorally bought by the gun lobby.

Anyway, back to cars! The reliability of Chinese cars is terrible like you've described, so its just as well I won't be buying them any time soon, if ever. I can remember in the 1980s feeling a bit aggrieved at the cache that German brands seemed to be able generate, while the British cars stumbled and dwindled. So to see the German car industry suffering now does give me a certain sense of schadenfreude (pay back).

I don't have any answers or strongly held views here. I'm happy with my Italian built Puntos and Fiat 500X :)
Definitely, I can't really 100% abandon it all either, I think with cars it will be easier due to the used car market and still plenty of viable US / EU / Asian manufacturers at all levels around for a long time yet - even if they can't deliver as long of a feature list for the same price.

It always confused me about the UK car thing, seen all the Top Gear jokes and the news coverage, and the blame of unions and whatnot. But I don't know... surely in Germany they had the whole union and fair worker treatment stuff too? But they managed to keep building and building things the whole world (except me) want! At least we still build some cars even if they're Toyotas and then luxury things as Range Rovers and the likes.

I'm not sure if @porta was talking about me, but I have no hatred for anyone at all in the matter of the CCP stuff, not the country or its people, when I refer to China in any negative way - it's aimed at the CCP, the communist regime government. Not sure why anybody (outside of its borders) would be overly concerned at criticism aimed at it. I'm happy to criticise our UK government and Trump and anything else too, nobody is perfect. Certainly no hate aimed at anyone, nor calling for anyone else to hate anyone over it. It's a horrific regime that enslaves it's people, it's wrong. Anyone can disagree and can also not care, and support it. I'm a bit full of crap as I said above because technically I have to as well, there's no 100% escaping it and living a normal life. Still won't stop me from pointing out the issues and hoping that someday, some company, person or politician figures out something better. Would you have similar soft spots for North Korea? Should I visit it before passing comments on it? Btw, applied for a fully paid opportunity to visit China at uni... had to make a little video and all. I lost out because apparently too many people in my postcode went to university?! I grew up (after early years) largely in a council estate...
 
Just to add one thing, as from what you can wrote I assume you missed that.

The Chinese production plants developped enourmously in the last 10 - 15 years. They are leaders of the robotization and automation. Last year Xiaomi has opened a fully autonomous seven-story factory. With not a single employee.

East european factories of reputable car parts manufacturers are much more 'slave labour' than the modern factories in China. I had friends working in some of them. So I know it from the side rarely others talk about. Or even know.

Of course I know that there's still a lot of old fashioned production in China and even more in the neighbouring countries, but I assume not in the automotive and electronics fields. I am also aware of the human right abuses. And that's the main problem with China in my opinion. But yes, we cannot quit buying Chinese products nowadays. It's simply impossible.

I will also remind that despite the high tech developpment in the EU and US, it's the Chinese and Indians that invented and are testing the high capacity, secure batteries without lithium (one of them contains sodium, can't remember for the other one.
 
The maintenance costs and parts availability for keeping my bought-from-new 08 100HP on the road finally got insurmountable; so I've bought something new again. I might not wait 17 years this time.

Basically nothing from Fiat I've wanted since, erm, about 2008; so I went French:

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Going to keep the 100HP at least until it can get classic insurance, not using it as a daily should reduce how many unobtainium parts I need to replace on it.
 
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