What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

PS to the above. When we were looking for our Ecomotive estate in SE trim the dealers seemed to be stowed out with FR trim models and they were trying quite hard to persuade us to buy that trim level. That was back in 2016 so probably lots of used examples about now?

 

[portland_bill]

Looking for a VAG vehicle..
Likely a Fabia or Ibiza.. nothing around locally..as I need a DSG: auto

https://www.graygablesgarage.com/us...odel=FABIA&gearbox=Automatic&vehicleType=cars

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

https://www.graygablesgarage.com/us...odel=FABIA&gearbox=Automatic&vehicleType=cars

I think the first one is probably a chain cam engine - you'd need to ask to be sure though. I believe modifications were made to the chain tensioner and guides on the later production - of which this must be one - but, personally, I'd much rather have the belt driven cam engine. The other 3 are pretty sure to be the newer engine but I'd pop the bonnet just to be sure. Look for the turbo being down the back of the engine between the engine and the bulkhead for the belted engine, also the earlier chain engine had a much smaller cover over the camshaft chain sprocket whereas the later belt engine had a much larger cover to enclose the two cam sprockets for the much wider belt. There was a small problem with the turbo's wastegate on the early production EA211 and turbos, mine included, were changed for one with a modified linkage which became standard fitment for new production from then. I think it very likely that even the oldest of the other 3 cars will be "new" enough not to have this problem - and anyway I would guess that those which were going to have problems, like mine had, will have been changed by now.

Try searching you tube for 1.2 tsi engine and 1.0 tsi engine and you should turn up stuff for both types.

Interestingly perhaps? when the engine first appeared the cam belt was advised as a "for life fitment" with no recommended change interval. The cam sprockets are of a very "clever" non round design - slightly triangulated - which is supposed to considerably reduce stress on the belt? Then they said somewhere around 70,000 miles (I think?) that the top belt cover (which is held with clips and is simple to remove) be removed every service and the belt checked for condition with the belt being renewed if thought necessary - I think you're supposed to check for cracks? Our local main agent is still recommending this and tells me he can't remember when he last booked one in for a belt change. The engine is very definitely an interference design and it has many lightweight components to maximize efficiency and fuel consumption. My guess would be that if pistons and valves got "intimate" a great deal of damage would be done to stuff like con rods and big ends and I don't think it would be worth even investigating - new engine I fear. So my local indy recommends changing the belt and tensioner/guide pulleys every four years or around 60/70 thousand miles if a high annual miler. I'm at 5+ years now with 22,000 miles and mine is being done next month. He's quoting around the £350 which seems reasonable to me (I think the computer has to relearn, a bit like our "Phonic wheel relearn" procedure) The water pump is on the other end of the head driven by a wee toothed belt so doesn't need to be changed/disturbed although he tells me the belt cover has to come off to install the locking tools so he'll check and replace this wee belt if it looks like it needs it.

Can you get a test drive? do let me know what you think of it if you do won't you?
regards. J.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Oh, there you go, found one for the earlier engine already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxhY5JDmTo8

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

bit more difficult finding stuff on the belt driven EA211 but I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9QIDRjxQDc Sorry it's not in English and it doesn't get interesting until you're about a minute into it, but you can see it has a solid flywheel - hurrah! - and the later type wastegate linkage which is black with ends that look a little like rose joints (earlier ones were in bright metal with squared off ends) Also, at around 2.20 minutes in they show the cam sprockets rotating quite quickly and you can see how they are definitely not round. Later in the video you can also clearly see that the turbo is a simple wastegated design without Variable vane technology to go wrong.

I'm sure I've seen one somewhere that shows a complete strip down of the engine and if I come across it I'll get back on here.

 

[portland_bill]

I think the first one is probably a chain cam engine - you'd need to ask to be sure though.

With the Mk3 Fabia, introduced in Europe late 2014, and UK early 2015, came the later TSi engines, with belt driven cams. Designation is CJZC for the 1.2 4cyl. The first car on the list will have the same engine as mine, but auto instead of manual. Rated at 90hp.
I think the earlier TSi was an indirect injection, and had an iron block. This later one is direct injection, and all alloy. So although they appear to be both 1.2 TSi, they are different engines. This later CJZC is, I think of the same family as the 1.0 3cyl. With the 1.0 later being available with 95 or 115hp, the 1.2 was dropped. Autos seem to always be the 115hp. (That's European hp, weaker horses than UK ones, so 108BHP)

Some data seems to show no cambelt change interval, elsewhere shown as 7 years. Mine will be 7 years old next January, so we'll see then if a cambelt needs changing.

Grey Gables Garage used to be a Skoda dealer. They're a family owned business, and were Skoda dealers when I moved to this area in 1995. Still there, still same family owned, but now an independent Skoda specialist.
Very happy with my car, and the service from them. (Not much use to Jock of course, long way to come.)

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks Jock

I had read about the changes @2015.. but had no idea how to spot the difference

Nearest so far is a tired VRs at the end of my road..

Off to see a couple when visiting my son in Cardiff on Sunday..

Is your tunnel plastic housing at 15Degrees to the lower dash?

Looks 'wrong' in the few pics I have studied :shrug:

Charlie

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

This isn't really a "not grumpy but not smile" but rather a "grumpy and smile".

Our Daughter and her family, they who live down near the south coast, are on their way to the Broads for a week on a boat so earlier Mrs J facetimed her to see how they were getting on. I'm amazed at how such a clear picture can be displayed from a moving car! Anyway she said "we're on the M25 crawling along in very slow traffic looking for the first exit because the man in the car next to us has just tooted us and told us we've got a flat back tyre - call you back soon". How lucky this happened in slow traffic.

Then my youngest boy rang to say they'd got back in the early hours of the morning after leaving Devon around 4pm and driving through the night. Much better than doing the journey in daylight hours he said. I'd been worrying about them doing the journey with the two young kids in his aging high mileage Astra and well loaded up with luggage so I'd spent a couple of days going over it and giving it a service before they went (found a bad trackrod end so glad I did). Very gratifyingly he told me it didn't miss a beat the whole way there and back.

Then, a little later, we got a call from our daughter to say they were back on the road again. They'd been turned away by a Kwik Fit store because they were too busy - that's got to be a first? - but had found a wee independent local tyre place just down the road. The tyre was by now ruined and the chap showed them the other rear tyre which was badly cracked in the sidewall so recommended they do both rear tyres. The fronts were fine having been replaced at last year's MOT I believe. So they ended up buying two tyres. "We bought Bridgestones Dad. The chap offered us 3 makes he had in stock but we'd only ever heard of the Bridgestones so we went with them. Did we do right"? I asked what the other makes were. "One was a Cooper and I don't remember the other, the chap was keen for us to take the Cooper but we'd never heard of it. He charged us £80 per tyre"? Their car is a Kia Ceed estate so I think the tyres are quite big? Of course they'd have been fine with the coopers and I don't think they got a bargain but I don't think they were ripped off either and it got them back on the road very quickly. Interestingly the chap showed them the four figure date numbers on the better tyre (the ruined tyre was illegible I think) and it had been manufactured in early 2016 so not actually that old, especially when I know they always buy big name tyres (michelin/goodyear/continental etc) I'm a little surprised they were cracking up already? Didn't someone else make a post somewhere on the forum recently about how quickly modern tyres seem to exhibit signs of cracking?

So there you go, one reason to smile and one reason to grump!

 

[varesecrazy]

Grey Gables Garage used to be a Skoda dealer. They're a family owned business, and were Skoda dealers when I moved to this area in 1995. Still there, still same family owned, but now an independent Skoda specialist.
Very happy with my car, and the service from them. (Not much use to Jock of course, long way to come.)

Thanks Nigel

When I was at the University.. they had Skoda estates.. I spent an afternoon over at GreyGables while a service was performed.. on an Octavia IIRC

We had a 1.9 D early fabia.. it was nasty.. whole car shook whilst idling in traffic

An academic took it from Oxford to Hamburg and back..

But probably nicer than via a modern electric.. 14 stops later..

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Is your tunnel plastic housing at 15Degrees to the lower dash?

Looks 'wrong' in the few pics I have studied :shrug:

Charlie

Here's what mine looks like, The bit round the handbrake runs concentrically up between the seats and tucks under the dash proper:



The centre section with the screen/radio and heater/air con controls is angled slightly towards the driver - I would think your 15 degrees wouldn't be a bad estimate:



You can see it better in this shot:



I think it may be so the screen is better presented if you're using it for sat nav? which I don't. In fact mostly the only "infotainment" function it serves is so Mrs J can use it to select radio programs. I sometimes use it when servicing it, or when waiting in a car park for Mrs J, to access vehicular info. I have to say I've never thought about it being angled and Mrs J doesn't complain about it making it difficult for her to use. In terms of display I do like the small multifunction display between the two big dials (Speedo and Tacho) where you can digitally display "useful" stuff like water temp (although it also has a normal water temp gauge in the main dial) Oil temp, being a turbo engine I particularly like that one, average and actual fuel consumption and other less useful stuff.

 

[varesecrazy]

Thanks..
Yours looks 'square'

Ive seen some ( DSG ).. where the lower dash is 'tailored' to accept the tunnel plastic 'at a jaunty angle'

Looks weird..!!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

With the Mk3 Fabia, introduced in Europe late 2014, and UK early 2015, came the later TSi engines, with belt driven cams. Designation is CJZC for the 1.2 4cyl. The first car on the list will have the same engine as mine, but auto instead of manual. Rated at 90hp.
I think the earlier TSi was an indirect injection, and had an iron block. This later one is direct injection, and all alloy. So although they appear to be both 1.2 TSi, they are different engines. This later CJZC is, I think of the same family as the 1.0 3cyl. With the 1.0 later being available with 95 or 115hp, the 1.2 was dropped. Autos seem to always be the 115hp. (That's European hp, weaker horses than UK ones, so 108BHP)

Some data seems to show no cambelt change interval, elsewhere shown as 7 years. Mine will be 7 years old next January, so we'll see then if a cambelt needs changing.

Grey Gables Garage used to be a Skoda dealer. They're a family owned business, and were Skoda dealers when I moved to this area in 1995. Still there, still same family owned, but now an independent Skoda specialist.
Very happy with my car, and the service from them. (Not much use to Jock of course, long way to come.)

Thanks PB, very interesting. The advice on the belts seems to change with everyone you speak to!

My engine is a 95hp CHZB 1.0 litre 3 cylinder. Yes I think there is some confusion over the 1.2. I thought they were all chain cams until I, relatively recently, saw a sectional diagram of one, I'm pretty sure with the turbo on the front, but with a belt! My guess would be that's going to be one of the ones before the latest generation of engine EA211 was introduced. As far as I know the later 3 and 4 cylinders all have belts?

I've heard that the more powerful version of my engine produces it's power over a narrower rev band so, as an every day driver, is not so pleasant to drive. Would make a lot of sense for the auto though wouldn't it?

Although mine is booked in for it's belt to be done at AVW near the end of next month, I think I'll reserve finally committing until I've had a look at it and talked to the other two VAG independents up here to see what they advise. As far as the garage goes up here I'm a bit "hot 'n cold" about the main agent. They did pretty much the bare minimum - but I suppose one should expect no more? - at the services during warranty. However they replaced the entire turbo under warranty without any argument when it's wastegate jammed up but did keep the car for over a week to do so. They are a multfranchise set up with the workshops seeming to do all the makes and that makes me very nervous, but most annoying of all is that their service desk is almost impossible to speak to. I recently tried to get a quote from them for doing the cam belt so I could compare with the price my indy is quoting. I must have tried about 4 or 5 times, on two separate days, to get through only to be told that he didn't know how much it would cost and he'd have to ring me back after he'd got the parts prices from the stores department. Three days later I'd still had no reply so I rang again. I can't remember if it took 2 or 3 calls this time - when you call they say "putting you through now sir" and then the phone just rings and rings and rings until you give up and ring off maybe to try again. - When I finally got through the second time, to the service desk, I got a different voice but the same story about having to price the job up. That was at the end of last week, still no reply! I'd ring up and complain if I thought it would do any good but I've now heard, from a couple of other SEAT owners that they take their cars over to the SEAT dealer in Fife (a wee trip over the Forth Road Bridge to get there) and they are very happy with them so I'm just keeping that up my sleeve in case I need a main dealer in future. For anything else I can't do myself I've got the AVW Autocentre. Where one of the two guys who own it is married to the daughter of a very good friend of our family and anyway, I find I get on well with them and trust them - They are people you can talk to who really know what they are on about and not just the useless interface "reception engineer" (or whatever other silly title the big dealers think up) who I find invariably know less than me and seem incapable of accurately passing on instructions to the spanner wielder in the workshop.

 

[StevenRB45]

I've heard that the more powerful version of my engine produces it's power over a narrower rev band so, as an every day driver, is not so pleasant to drive. Would make a lot of sense for the auto though wouldn't it?

With 7 speeds it's definitely got enough gears to keep it on the boil...as long the programming is sensible and it doesn't spend it's entire time changing gear constantly.

Quite interesting to look at the various specs on the engines through time for some reason the earlier 1.0s seem to be quite torque poor for a turbo. So pre 2017 118lb/ft post a much more meaty 147lb/ft. Does depend how it is delivered but for me that's what makes the Citroën (151lb/ft @1500 rpm) it feels like bigger car because it gains speed at normal road speeds without any obvious big effort and can hold it regardless of how steep hills are etc.

Even going up to a 110 in the older engine, gives you less 20lb/ft than the newer one so you'd probably end up finding the less powerful car with the newer style engine would be more driveable.

 

[varesecrazy]

With 7 speeds it's definitely got enough gears to keep it on the boil...as long the programming is sensible and it doesn't spend it's entire time changing gear constantly.

Quite interesting to look at the various specs on the engines through time for some reason the earlier 1.0s seem to be quite torque poor for a turbo. So pre 2017 118lb/ft post a much more meaty 147lb/ft. Does depend how it is delivered but for me that's what makes the Citroën (151lb/ft @1500 rpm) it feels like bigger car because it gains speed at normal road speeds without any obvious big effort and can hold it regardless of how steep hills are etc.

Even going up to a 110 in the older engine, gives you less 20lb/ft than the newer one so you'd probably end up finding the less powerful car with the newer style engine would be more driveable.

Yes indeed..
Our panda and punto employ the same 85hp twinair.. bigger body gets an extra gear
The difference.. in driveability.. is massive. Top is no taller just far better overlap makes it far more forgiving.

Thats why with the VAG motor I'm going 1.2
It SHOULD be less stressed in all the 65/70 mph trips I do..and cope with local hills better
Finding one with cruise is particularly hit and miss
I was previously told VAG kit just needs to be 'plugged in and enabled'

But Ive spent the 10 years since my first DVT trying unsuccessfuly to do that with a FIAT...Punto TA was a factory fit
Everything else has had 2 levels of ECU

 

[StevenRB45]

Yes indeed..
Our panda and punto employ the same 85hp twinair.. bigger body gets an extra gear
The difference.. in driveability.. is massive. Top is no taller just far better overlap makes it far more forgiving.

Thats why with the VAG motor I'm going 1.2
It SHOULD be less stressed in all the 65/70 mph trips I do..and cope with local hills better
Finding one with cruise is particularly hit and miss
I was previously told VAG kit just needs to be 'plugged in and enabled'

But Ive spent the 10 years since my first DVT trying unsuccessfuly to do that with a FIAT...Punto TA was a factory fit
Everything else has had 2 levels of ECU

I know I've been quite vocal about the twin air in the past but I think one the issues with it was it being a twin so it's firing half as often as a 4 at low rpm. To me it made it feel particularly peaky as it shuddered if you let the revs drop low which is easier to do with the longer ratios of a 5 speed.

You probably won't find a triple or a 4 cylinder are quite as picky about it. If memory serves the twinair did not like being below about 1800rpm a triple is more like 1500 where it starts to get truculutent. There's just literally gaps in the firing cycle on a 4 stroke engine with less than 4 cylinders which does affect low rev drivebility.

The never ending car hunt that concluded with "soddit I'm buying the car we've already got" did take in various Seats and Skodas and I think the one I did notice was that they are only "cheap" when specced quite meanly and most specs are not generous. So trying to find a car where certain things had been put in day one was quite a trial. Looking for a Fabia with both Cruise and Climate control is pretty much a needle in a hay stack. I think I found one Fabia monte carlo estate with both fitted and the 110 engine but it was silly money compared to other options.

 

[portland_bill]

Thats why with the VAG motor I'm going 1.2
It SHOULD be less stressed in all the 65/70 mph trips I do..and cope with local hills better
Finding one with cruise is particularly hit and miss
I was previously told VAG kit just needs to be 'plugged in and enabled'(

Skoda do leave off a few of the 'toys', which is one of the reasons I chose it, as learners need to learn how to make decisions. So for me, no auto headlamps, no auto wipers, manual dipping mirror, manual aircon. Mine is an SE.

S has nothing, and is quite basic.

SE is adequate, everything you 'need', not necessarily everything you 'want'.
(@varesecrazy, if you'd like a tour of mine, you are welcome. Tomorrow, Monday, is looking easiest, as other days look a bit silly. I can pop across to Didcot and meet you when you arrive home if that works.)

SE L has all the toys.

SE came as standard with speed limiter, but no cruise. I had also seen the 'accessory' fit stalks with cruise, but it seems the ECU can only take this if you have keyless entry, a cost option on SE, so few will have that. There are a few with cruise from factory, but most will not have this. Recently, my wiper switch got silly, refusing to turn off. So at that point I asked about adding cruise, if the stalks were being replaced anyway. Sadly, not possible, as above. New switches, fitted, by Grey Gables, a few pence under £200. A bargian when compared with just the price of a switch set for the Panda.

Specs of the current Fabia are very similar to the older ones, so a browse of their website may give an idea.

 

[portland_bill]

Had a gentle squeak from the front brakes yesterday. Usual annual indication of front pads getting sticky with rust/dust.
Early this morning, before it gets warm, or wet (both due later), out I went to attend.

Nearside just dirty, cleaned up.
Offside, sadly, inner pad a bit thinner than the outer, so been sticking. Despite this, pads free in carrier, piston moves easily, caliper moves on its pins fine. So no apparent reason, as usual. Oh well. cleaned up, all looking good again for another year, when it'll squeak again.

 

[StevenRB45]

Skoda do leave off a few of the 'toys', which is one of the reasons I chose it

Obviously it depends on if any of the "missing" items are stuff Charlie would want.

But I think the Seat represents the best balance between money paid and equipment. The Skoda is cheap while grimly specced but Polo money when specced up to Ibiza levels. Although the increased spec does seem to come with superfluous sports suspension...which is not necessarily a blessing.

I was only looking at upspeccing a Fabia as unfortunately Seat released the Arona in 2017 and killed the Ibiza estate and you've never been able to buy a Polo estate since all this was fields so it was the only option if looking nearly new.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Finding one with cruise is particularly hit and miss

On the Golf and Leon, I suspect amongst others, you can buy the cruise as an after thought from VW and the cost is surprisingly reasonable. I have come near to doing this with our Leon in its younger days but it never did that many really long runs so I never got worked up enough to do it.

 

[portland_bill]

On the Golf and Leon, I suspect amongst others, you can buy the cruise as an after thought from VW and the cost is surprisingly reasonable. I have come near to doing this with our Leon in its younger days but it never did that many really long runs so I never got worked up enough to do it.

Fabia offers cruise at £195 if ordering a new car. There are a few around used, but most are bought by 'local' people, so no benefit with cruise on the trip to Sainsbury's. The 'enhanced' models tend to add cruise as a selling point, but getting a 4yr old one with just over 20k on the clock, at around half new price, seemed a better option for me, especially as I was about to inflict learners on it.