What's made you grumpy today?

[dave]

whilst i agree there is no need for swearing on the forum i can understand why i find i am swearing a lot more since the rise in and acceptance of racism and hate crime in the uk since brexit vote and now even more since the truth. I have mixed race friends born in the uk being told on a weekly basis to get out of the country, gay friends being verbally abused.
Its not politics it's the end of live as we know it for the worst, unless everyone against it stops hiding under the i don't do politics rock and stands up to it.
https://dorseteye.com/the-nazis-are...6-T0ok78zcMPXQOwrZIjTvGyFPwtfaBCAjpMdjVR9cXPU

 

[jrkitching]

Where is the line drawn?

Free speech is an important and hard won democratic freedom; that freedom does have to be balanced against other issues, such as human rights and incitement to hate. In any civilised society, lines do have to be drawn about what can and what cannot be publicly said.

My own view is that it isn't this forum's job to draw that line. I moderate a forum; I don't moderate the world wide web or the national press.

If something is widely available on mainstream media, accessible via the open internet to anyone with a connection, then I'm not going to say it can't be posted here, whatever my personal views might be. If something meets youtube's rules for content, then it's OK to post a link to it here. That way, if youtube subsequently choose to take it down, the link won't work.

If you believe that a particular publicly available youtube video contains inappropriate content, then I'd suggest you complain to youtube directly.

If you also make a personal comment about that video, you're responsible for your comment, and it will be subject to the forum's usual rules for moderation.

 

[Schumi2001]

Welcome to a state where the politics of hate
Shout loud in the crowd "Watch them beat us all down"
There's a rising tide in the rivers of blood
But if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence
If they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out? Will you defend me?
Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right

 

[andydiver]

The level of debate has been devisive and appalling at times.
Extreme views, or at least radical ones, have been voiced and much repeated.
Hidden idiots on the racist right have found confidence to speak louder, and are thinking of themselves as winning.

The middle ground has been poorly represented, the official opposition chose a very bad time to go idealist and far left, however admirable in the idealistic sense. The more the opposition complain about the opportunity loss or whatever right now the more they Stoke the right.

All that is, frankly, formally done in the democracy we share. Little said for the next 2 years or so in a forum like this will change what will happen in Parliament. We can all have a debate, hopefully more reasonable, come next election.

Our MPs need to be supported in making best decisions as things are right now, not in some fantastic world.

I was, am, a remoaner, not so much though as have listened to the arguments and to carry them on now will keep stoking the worst. So let's work to improve here and now for everyone.

Don't be like the Irish man, who, when asked how to get to Dublin, first says, well, I would not start from here.... ( I am Irish ), and really that is another way of working humour into a situation where is is sorely needed.
And I respect our moderators very moderate comments, well done.

 

[StevenRB45]

...Car related for a change.

A few years ago was having issues with patchy reliability on my keyfobs. Taking two or 3 presses to work, initially thought it was a solder joint in the fob tried all sorts to fix it. After a while it was traced to the wonderful chinesium batteries all the local shops sell. They'd last two or three months then start dying.

Replaced them with decent ones on what do you know the issue disappeared.

Spin forward to my service this year I'd just replaced the fob battery about a fortnight before it went in, on picking the car up I was informed they'd replaced it for me as they do that on all servicing now.

It would appear they've thrown away a perfectly good battery and replaced it with Chinesium..as it's on the fritz again. Oh well 2.99 for couple of Duracells off Amazon, shall arrive after Christmas.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The level of debate has been devisive and appalling at times.
Extreme views, or at least radical ones, have been voiced and much repeated.
Hidden idiots on the racist right have found confidence to speak louder, and are thinking of themselves as winning.

The middle ground has been poorly represented, the official opposition chose a very bad time to go idealist and far left, however admirable in the idealistic sense. The more the opposition complain about the opportunity loss or whatever right now the more they Stoke the right.

All that is, frankly, formally done in the democracy we share. Little said for the next 2 years or so in a forum like this will change what will happen in Parliament. We can all have a debate, hopefully more reasonable, come next election.

Our MPs need to be supported in making best decisions as things are right now, not in some fantastic world.

I was, am, a remoaner, not so much though as have listened to the arguments and to carry them on now will keep stoking the worst. So let's work to improve here and now for everyone.

Don't be like the Irish man, who, when asked how to get to Dublin, first says, well, I would not start from here.... ( I am Irish ), and really that is another way of working humour into a situation where is is sorely needed.
And I respect our moderators very moderate comments, well done.

Thanks for your voice of reason Andy. I absolutely love the technical and diverse car related content in this forum and the friendly and knowledgeable comment of contributors. That's mainly why I check in here at least once a day.

I'm not a political person, considering myself to hold "moderate" views, and have found some of the comment in this thread a bit disturbing. During my life I've worked in "big manufacturing" (Firestone), "small business" (various garages), I was a public servant for a while and I've worked for a charity. It's been my experience that change is best accomplished from within and done gradually hence I'm a remainer at heart (as are many of my fellow Scots.)

Regardless of what opinion anyone may hold I am absolutely appalled - and I don't use the word lightly - at the animosity and depth of aggressive division which now exists in the UK. The politicians are all talking about "healing" and "bringing the country together" but I think there's little chance of this in the near future and may well be only achieved with the next generation, or maybe not even that quickly.

Up here, in the "Frozen North" - well, pretty damp anyway - The "Old Public School" type image of our present ruling elite does not go down well and there is the perception (which I kind of subscribe to) that they're only out to maximize the living standards and interests of those in the south east corner of the country. Unfortunately this helps to fuel the division at present being whipped up by our Nicola for independence and whilst I've in the past strongly supported a United Kingdom I now, with some reluctance, find myself sympathizing with their views whilst at the same time worrying how an independent Scotland would fare. So again I find myself despairing at these extreme views.

Oh deary me. What's to become of us? I fear Britain is now truly on the slippery slope to decline and despair for my (now approaching middle aged) children's future.

Not withstanding all of this I would like to wish you all a very Merry Christmas (not Xmas) and prosperity and, above all, good health in the year to come
regards
Jock

 

[dave]

whilst i agree there is no need for swearing on the forum i can understand why i find i am swearing a lot more since the rise in and acceptance of racism and hate crime in the uk since brexit vote and now even more since the truth. I have mixed race friends born in the uk being told on a weekly basis to get out of the country, gay friends being verbally abused.
Its not politics it's the end of life as we know it for the worst, unless everyone against it stops hiding under the i don't do politics rock and stands up to it.
https://dorseteye.com/the-nazis-are...6-T0ok78zcMPXQOwrZIjTvGyFPwtfaBCAjpMdjVR9cXPU

hmm didn't proof read that properly where it says "and now even more since the truth" it should be "and now even more since the twelfth"

 

[dave]

Up here, in the "Frozen North" - well, pretty damp anyway -

that cold weather is the only thing keeping the bloody English out, if it was warmer we would all me moving up there now and hoping we could stay after independents day.

 

[DaveMcT]

Sadly the "Hate Speech" laws brought in with good intentions have been hijacked. They are now being used to stifle free speech by the intolerant left who choose to be offended by everything they don't happen to agree with.

Anyone should be allowed to say what they like and then stand or fall by that. The criminal law should not be involved, because it causes a dangerously slippery slope.

If that sounds extreme, go and read Orwell's 1984 from cover to cover. Do Animal Farm as well if you like. The C20th Russian and German totalitarian systems show how things can go when the state takes central control of everything.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Mrs J's sister has now been here for just over a week. A voluminous, highly opinionated lady, she installs herself a week or so before Christmas and stays as long as she can - never less than 3 weeks! So far I have not quite torn out the last few strands of my hair and kept my mouth shut by biting the inside of my bottom lip. However I find it harder every year.

Ah well, probably only another two weeks to endure. Chin up Jock!

 

[DaveMcT]

But there is still time to make a start on that new bathroom the house sooo needs.

Now is good - stuff you need is going cheap in the sales.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

But there is still time to make a start on that new bathroom the house sooo needs.

Now is good - stuff you need is going cheap in the sales.

Hmmm. Bathroom's still far to good to be ripping out yet with that wonderful shower and redecorated only weeks ago. However the hall, stairs and landing - which we foolishly painted in "trendy" terracotta many years ago - really could do with a facelift. Maybe a new carpet too?

 

[dave]

Sadly the "Hate Speech" laws brought in with good intentions have been hijacked. They are now being used to stifle free speech by the intolerant left who choose to be offended by everything they don't happen to agree with.

Anyone should be allowed to say what they like and then stand or fall by that. The criminal law should not be involved, because it causes a dangerously slippery slope.

If that sounds extreme, go and read Orwell's 1984 from cover to cover. Do Animal Farm as well if you like. The C20th Russian and German totalitarian systems show how things can go when the state takes central control of everything.

its the other way around people are using terms like intolerant left, far left and only saying what everyone is thinking, as an excuse to spread hate.
if you have read Orwell's 1984 its seems you haven't understood it. you would also be better off reading up on recent history and make sure it doesn't repeat

 

[dave]

In his first four days as Prime Monster of the United Kingdom Boris Johnson has:

Cut the disability benefits of 650,000 vulnerable humans.

Rolled back on plans to address the climate change emergency.

Banned any boycott of Israel and supported their renewed offensive against the unarmed civilians of Gaza.

Removed child refugee legal protections.

Rolled back his pledge to increase nurses for the NHS.

Told us that the NHS is no longer protected from a trade deal with the US.

Told us that future deals will be conducted in secret.

Blocked anyone without photo ID from voting in future elections.

Drafted new constituency boundaries to keep the Tories in power indefinitely.

Dismissed renewed calls for a second Scottish independence referendum causing further disharmony.

Stated that workers rights and Trade Unions are under threat.

Rolled back pledge to increase the national living wage.

Announced an increase in MP’s wages to £82k a year

Scrapped EU directives on holiday pay, sick leave and working hours.

Stated that Brexit is happening by the the 31st of January with the worst no-deal scenario yet.

For anyone looking for sources (thanks Katie Round):

1 disability
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/...cV4n7Dvk6oVMYhcBuzDueVet4d-Lkb3e7buqANAk9Wepg

2 Climate change https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...vc46sYQiolKw1IO9HMEdgKK27r2CjVZo8SgqT3T9__Wmk

3 israel
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...Su6JCKHXssA_Desne12qa1s76wbW131Vxq0rdf2MltB2Q

4 child refugee
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...NSqmPFxeabHZRjvUhLMw288s2xDwlI7y5tosGKKABuHes

5 nurses
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/elect...4wRYK8aH92SaU6ZpL2kfgscDZxpOgbe2ZLuXdDEzFSG5Y


6 secret future deals
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...PvXKAO4RclZD41u0Ws5sBaLBrA9h2NX0-evRytcK-h3Ak

7 voting and id
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/..._S6mVD--HyvXx6dD_MdblFYT1z_lbc8ARFGmUvuaE5u9Y

8 new constituencies
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...IEPkbNrjA81QoI6sBJTsomitHetTAz1zHLRO7tddcARg4

9 scottish independence
https://learningenglish.voanews.com...HQS63CHWbOANYZacG1O8BkGf2IxCEaBl7aC1MGVeyUnng

10 workers rights
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...1pUoZVoUO2ujYjoBqiqrvrZRu4jA1oWbJ2Oux94OqeSQA

11 national living wage
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...BKiu0RIPMJcUAfHKqO3oLT1Ift5NJtG9uB0Vd_aImraN4

12 mps wages
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...jmAlFG_mrBwidMeg6tEk2vgPSBOne6g3BWo1QVFtfEIu8

13 eu holiday pay
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/polit...bzX8HJQty2oaOr85e1RJcuPpEXG5SlxP_diAFUSjYH2NU

14 no deal
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/b...ZLmoim6YcNKdkd2NE801p4DI78sCQX8zJB2-Cxk0Cr36A

He was relying on everyone being distracted by xmas

 

[Schumi2001]

Hardly a surprise! All those 'new Tory voters' are very quickly going to find out they've been duped on the basis that they don't like foreigners.

The irony, of course, being that we will see a sharp increase in the 'brown' type of foreigners that many thought they'd not have to put up with once we left the EU.

Some people really are too stupid to be allowed the vote.

 

[SB1500]

I find it funny how all the guys who find it hard to discuss politics continue to bring it up and call people nasties like “racist” and “intolerant”, whilst the entire time they’re pointing fingers, insulting and not willing to tolerate other people’s views whatsoever. The irony!

??*

 

[Schumi2001]

I've yet to meet a Brexit supporter who can explain exactly why we needed to leave the EU. They can't give any economic benefits, they just quote made up nonsense from alt-right groups that can't be verified.

When the local news interviewed people in my area who voted to leave, despite all major infrastructure projects displaying the EU flag, it was all about immigration. Specifically immigrants of the brown type. Even though the EU has absolutely nothing to do with it - they'd been duped by Farage's poster.

 

[dave]

I find it funny how all the guys who find it hard to discuss politics continue to bring it up and call people nasties like “racist” and “intolerant”, whilst the entire time they’re pointing fingers, insulting and not willing to tolerate other people’s views whatsoever. The irony!

??*

not sure who these guys are you are referring to.
if some people are going to be intolerant and racist other people are not going to put up with it and just stay quiet too many died fighting to get rid of it we will not be silenced so it can continue.

 

[puntofan01]

What really cheeses me off is the superior attitude a lot of remainders display, and the general consensus that anyone who voted to leave is a racist moron. Yes, I voted to leave, and yes part of it was immigration related. However, I'm not racist, as my views on immigration work BOTH WAYS.

With regards to economic benefits, as far as I'm concerned, the figures can be massaged by both sides to try and convince people that they're right, but personally, I'd much prefer UK tax money to remain in the UK, rather than being sent to brussels, for them to waste.

 

[s130]

Was writing my Wife's Christmas Cards.

Had two cards for her along with another for our house Rabbits.

I then found myself an envelope short. I could have sworn I checked when I bought the cards a month ago but decided I must have cocked up.

So I put her two cards in the one envelope, with one card explaining "your plonker husband ......".

So put the card under the tree.

Wife comes down a little later and says "what is this envelope for/from". I swear I looked high and low for the envelope I thought I had.

Too late now as even if I repacked the cards the "your plonker husband ......". has spoilt the recovery procedure.

Better luck next year I hope

I wonder if Boris J and J Corbyn (the two Jays) sent each other a Christmas Card and what they wrote to each other?