What's made you grumpy today?

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What's made you grumpy today?

What really cheeses me off is the superior attitude a lot of remainders display, and the general consensus that anyone who voted to leave is a racist moron. Yes, I voted to leave, and yes part of it was immigration related. However, I'm not racist, as my views on immigration work BOTH WAYS.

With regards to economic benefits, as far as I'm concerned, the figures can be massaged by both sides to try and convince people that they're right, but personally, I'd much prefer UK tax money to remain in the UK, rather than being sent to brussels, for them to waste.

No massaging required - we are members of the World's largest trading bloc. That brings huge advantages - we have deals with almost every country in the world, we have free trade with our neighbours. We have standards, worker rights and many other benefits.

We send money their way as part of the deal - and they send money back to places with specific needs. Mostly areas completely ignored by a succession of right leaning governments who don't give a damn for anyone but their mates and business associates. See South Wales and much of the North - just look at the number of EU flags on redevelopment and infrastructure projects.

Nice of you to admit immigration was an issue for you - it's a complete non-issue in reality as the immigration people worry about has nothing to do with the EU at all. Sadly, a large proportion of leavers fail to understand this. So we've shot ourselves in the face because some people can't differentiate between EU migration and the rest of the world.
 
and yes part of it was immigration related. However, I'm not racist, as my views on immigration work BOTH WAYS.

pmsl just because you dont want to live any where else don't make you not racist for not wanting people from other countries to be able to live and work here. you are the worst sort of racist.

i didn't vote remain i voted leave on as i didn't not think anyone would be mad enough to take the racist side and allow a deal that excluded free movement, I thought people would have the sense to go for a Norway type deal same as many others. that is why boris called another general rather than a revised referendum as he knew he would lose that and the only way he could win was a combined hardcore Tory vote with the racist side of the leave votes.
 
pmsl just because you dont want to live any where else don't make you not racist for not wanting people from other countries to be able to live and work here. you are the worst sort of racist.

i didn't vote remain i voted leave on as i didn't not think anyone would be mad enough to take the racist side and allow a deal that excluded free movement, I thought people would have the sense to go for a Norway type deal same as many others. that is why boris called another general rather than a revised referendum as he knew he would lose that and the only way he could win was a combined hardcore Tory vote with the racist side of the leave votes.
Not at all, I shall explain my view in a way that hopefully even the most feeble of snowflakes will understand, if not accept: I don't have a problem with skilled people whom speak good, understandable English coming here, that is fine. What I would want to be controlled is the number of unskilled people who don't have the ability to speak our language. Likewise, I'm not a doctor or chemist etc, and I don't speak Spanish, (for example,) therefore, it would be wrong of me to dump myself in Spain (for example,) and take a lesser skilled job and lower priced home that a Spanish person might well need. A skills based immigration system isn't racist... [emoji52] I may be wrong, but I believe Australia has always had such a system.
 
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Your argument fails in a major way, though, because most, EU immigrants coming here speak very good English. Probably better than some of our natives! - and many of them have skills and an education behind them, but end up in lower end jobs. I personally know Poles with exceptional English language skills (better than my seniors at work, ffs!) and degree level education who are supervisors in petrol stations on little more than minimum wage.

The immigration you don't want is entirely unrelated to our membership of the EU!
 
I can only take your word for that, I'm merely going by my own experiences. I see immigrants who can barely speak English, doing lower end, less skilled work, and mainly Eastern European.
 
Our ancestors sailed around the world in wooden ships, invading every country they could, then ruling them, and insisting they all speak our language. Many of these countries now consider English as their first language, their own or tribal language is their second language. (Does that apply to the Welsh too?:devil:)

Now, it seems a surprise when their descendents make a beeline for our shores to make a better life for themselves. Previous actions biting us in the bum.

Over the last 15 years I've taught a lot of immigrants to drive, all spoke good English, all, except one, were lovely people, working harder than most of us would wish to, to improve their lot. To travel thousands of miles, to a country where you may not be welcomed by all, and start again with nothing, is a very brave thing to do. Any immigration problem is not with each individual, although there will be a few bad apples, but with the numbers. As suggested earlier, we need a proper policy on who and why, and manage it better.

One guy, from Afghanistan, had been here for five years, and needed a driving licence to open up better job opportunities, so he could afford for his wife and child to join him. For five years he had 3 jobs, and visited his wife twice a year. We had to arrange lessons around his shift patterns, pick him up from one job, deposit him at the next. The moment he passed his test he fell apart emotionally, floods of tears, and the biggest hug I've ever had from anyone.

Before travelling here, he'd attended evening classes in Pakistan, to learn about the UK benefits system. That makes me smile. After arrival, he signed on the dole for 3 days before getting his first job. A work ethic a lot of people may not align with.

A guy from Burundi was very good, having driven trucks there. When I suggested that there must be some sort of training and testing to drive trucks there, he agreed, but "not to UK standards". I jokingly said 'as long as you don't crash?'. "Oh no", he said, "as long as no-one goes to hospital". There's a test standard to aspire to.
 
I can only take your word for that, I'm merely going by my own experiences. I see immigrants who can barely speak English, doing lower end, less skilled work, and mainly Eastern European.

we need them people to pick our crops and other jobs the British wont do, when back in the 80's there was no work in the uk many here had to go work in countries where we couldn't speak their language, Its all the same planet.


using words like "feeble of snowflakes " against anyone trying to stamp out this rise in racism is not helping your case 1 bit.
you people never had a problem with immigrants doing lower end, less skilled work when they were from Australia probably because they were white English speaking immigrants.
 
What really cheeses me off is the superior attitude a lot of remainders display, and the general consensus that anyone who voted to leave is a racist moron. Yes, I voted to leave, and yes part of it was immigration related. However, I'm not racist, as my views on immigration work BOTH WAYS.

With regards to economic benefits, as far as I'm concerned, the figures can be massaged by both sides to try and convince people that they're right, but personally, I'd much prefer UK tax money to remain in the UK, rather than being sent to brussels, for them to waste.



Yeah, and they claim we’re the racists, you’d love to know what one of the so called righteous remainers prominent on this thread said to me / about me the other week.... Thankfully mods removed it. Fell under the “racist, bigoted and small minded” accusation lol
 
Mrs J's sister has now been here for just over a week. A voluminous, highly opinionated lady, she installs herself a week or so before Christmas and stays as long as she can - never less than 3 weeks! So far I have not quite torn out the last few strands of my hair and kept my mouth shut by biting the inside of my bottom lip. However I find it harder every year.

Ah well, probably only another two weeks to endure. Chin up Jock!



Lol, consider myself to have moderate views, maybe there could be an even more local independence vote.
 
Or, edited for rabid bias,

Cut the disability benefits of 650,000 vulnerable humans.... and nearly as many are now on the same or greater benefit. Staff need much more training on the system as many appeals are upheld, maybe they also want it to fail which would be dereliction of their duty. Employers need to be encouraged to employ a wider range of staff. Did they ever give the benefit to non humans?

Rolled back on plans to address the climate change emergency, at least as prescribed by the EU we are leaving, the UK public can decide for future policy

Banned any boycott of Israel and supported their renewed offensive against the unarmed civilians of Gaza......... by public bodies which have no right or democratic mandate to make such decisions nor should their staff do it on paid time, the government itself not stating a policy either way on the matter.

Removed child refugee legal protections.... as prescribed by the EU we are leaving, the UK public can decide over the next democracy events how we manage this and can do whatever they like privately or through charitable efforts.

Rolled back his pledge to increase nurses for the NHS.... subject to being able to afford it and no left wing sabotage of the economy.

Told us that the NHS is no longer protected from a trade deal with the US...... by being part of the EU we are leaving, see the patterns here yet?

Told us that future deals will be conducted in secret, can any deal truly be made by constantly having referendums and showing everyone your working out?

Blocked anyone without photo ID from voting in future elections. Pass, people need to take votes seriously.

Drafted new constituency boundaries to keep the Tories in power indefinitely... boundaries are constantly being changed by all parties for all sorts of reasons., like it would have made a difference last election anyway

Dismissed renewed calls for a second Scottish independence referendum causing further disharmony. We need stability for a while, future government can do what they like, I think it would be a tragedy if the Scottish left though would not blame them right now.

Stated that workers rights and Trade Unions are under threat.... we are leaving the EU workers rights are in the gift of this or a future Labour government, no plans to reduce right now.

Rolled back pledge to increase the national living wage..... its the economy stupid

Announced an increase in MP’s wages to £82k a year...... fair cop. But a head teacher of a decent school can earn more, for example.

Scrapped EU directives on holiday pay, sick leave and working hours.....we are leaving the EU, again, policy is in our hands now.

Stated that Brexit is happening by the the 31st of January with the worst no-deal scenario yet.. If Labour had worked with not prevaricated or against the outcome last 3 years things might be better.

Same sources as Dave, read them for proper details either way.

Now let's give it a rest.

For anyone looking for sources (thanks Katie Round):

1 disability

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/...BuzDueVet4d-Lkb3e7buqANAk9Wepg

2 Climate change https://www.independent.co.uk/...9HMEdgKK27r2CjVZo8SgqT3T9__Wmk

3 israel

https://www.independent.co.uk/...ne12qa1s76wbW131Vxq0rdf2MltB2Q

4 child refugee

https://www.independent.co.uk/...UhLMw288s2xDwlI7y5tosGKKABuHes

5 nurses

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/...pL2kfgscDZxpOgbe2ZLuXdDEzFSG5Y

6 secret future deals

https://www.independent.co.uk/...0Ws5sBaLBrA9h2NX0-evRytcK-h3Ak

7 voting and id

https://www.independent.co.uk/...D_MdblFYT1z_lbc8ARFGmUvuaE5u9Y

8 new constituencies

https://www.express.co.uk/news...sBJTsomitHetTAz1zHLRO7tddcARg4

9 scottish independence

https://learningenglish.voanew...cG1O8BkGf2IxCEaBl7aC1MGVeyUnng

10 workers rights

https://www.independent.co.uk/...BqiqrvrZRu4jA1oWbJ2Oux94OqeSQA

11 national living wage

https://www.independent.co.uk/...KqO3oLT1Ift5NJtG9uB0Vd_aImraN4

12 mps wages

https://www.express.co.uk/news...g6tEk2vgPSBOne6g3BWo1QVFtfEIu8

13 eu holiday pay

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/...5e1RJcuPpEXG5SlxP_diAFUSjYH2NU

14 no deal

https://inews.co.uk/news/polit...NE801p4DI78sCQX8zJB2-Cxk0Cr36A

He was relying on everyone being distracted by xmas
 
Howay..

There's enough of this all over Facebook.

Also if you're surprised by Bojo lying you must have either been under a rock for the last 10 years or you voted for him and don't care.
 
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Or, edited for rabid bias,

Cut the disability benefits of 650,000 vulnerable humans.... and nearly as many are now on the same or greater benefit.

they are not many are mentally ill and could not handle the stress of an appeal, them appeals cost the tax payer thousands and should not be needed

3.jpg
 
To be honest it's where this topic belongs!

facebook are bias a mixed raced brown friends on there has been banned for commenting because she posted a picture of Nazis in response to a racist comment she got, the racist comment and the racist who posted it were left.
This topic belongs every where before its too late again.
people need to get rid of the sod you jack i'm alright attitude

Or this will happen again
get brexit done.jpg
 
This topic belongs every where before its too late again.
people need to get rid of the sod you jack i'm alright attitude

Which topic dave? Because I'm sure I'm not the only one who's starting to get confused with what point (or points) are actually trying to be made here?? :confused: somewhere amongst these pages someone's mentioned brexit and we're now many exhausting pages later we're on people being igornant to the next potential ethnic genocide!!

What would you like us all to do Dave? What are you after from the members of the fiatforum? Facebook is exactly where specific topics like this should be talked about because people who are particularly interested in it can seek it out and discuss it as they see fit.

This thread is a stones throw away from being locked up. If you want to talk about domestic politics then fine do it calmly and without insult that is ALL that the fiatforum is asking you to do.
 
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This thread is titled "what's made you grumpy today?" Well, what's making me grumpy reading it is that it's confirming my feeling that Boris, his pals and other politicians have little chance of bringing us all together in peace and harmony any time soon. What's gone wrong with us all? Wish I could find the answer.
 
It's what happens when you embolden the racists, bigots and xenophobes.

Farage and Boris have broken the nation and it's going to take a very long time to fix the damage they have done.

We now have a PM who feels it's acceptable to make racist comments about people in public. And instead of apologising for this, goes on to make further racist comment.

I wish I'd have known back in the late 80s what I know now - I'd have ensured I learned an EU language to a competent 'business' level, so I could leave this place behind. I'm just glad we took the decision not to have children on the basis that we lived in a broken country even way back in the early 2000s.
 
I promise to stop, have tried to offer a moderated view. I am too clumsy for that to be working. We need good debate, not here though. PM me if you wish to discuss more, anger levels are clearly high in some and this stoking should stop.
 
Facebook is exactly where specific topics like this should be talked about because people who are particularly interested in it can seek it out and discuss it as they see fit.

no it isn't facebook is censored, hopefully fiat forum still isn't. this isnt about brexit its about the rise is fascism

this is what happened on facebook when my friend replied to racist comments with this meme
4.jpg

But the comment she replied to claiming the housing price rise was "because of all the foreigners" was left.

if you think it belongs out of this tread split it into a new one titled fight the rise in fascism.
 
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if you think it belongs out of this tread split it into a new one titled fight the rise in fascism.

I think it's been well covered in this thread and we are just going around in circles falling out with everyone. I'm certainly not going to be starting any thread on politics but if you want to start one on fighting the rise of fascism then by all means go for it! There will be no censorship here........ So long as it complies with the forum rules of course so no swearing, name calling, trolling or abuse ;)
 
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