What's made you grumpy today?

[s130]

Road "Give Way Markings"

As many a close shave with mini roundabouts and "straight liner over the top drivers" I noticed today that our local mini "crash opportunity" has be marked up again.

This was essentialy what was a major estate road with a single "give way" side entry. It was turned into a mini crash scene years ago.

So today we have:

One entrance to the mini roundabout with double dotted give way lines and the other two with single broad dotted lines. Now a quick check on the current highway code road markings is here:

https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-markings.html

Yes THREE sets of give way lines.

No wonder mini roundabouts have become such a hazardous crash zone.

I think we now need three sets of Stop Lines. "Stop", "Stop!" and "Stop!!"

So at a junction with three roads the "Stop!!" has to give priority to the "Stop!" and the "Stop!" priority to the "Stop" UNLESS you are held by a Red or Amber Light, or a policman, or there is a pedestrian crossing. Zimples

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Thanks for the education Schumi, schadenfreude - and epicaricacy, as I find it's English counterpart is called - are two words which, in my whole 73 years on this planet, I've never before come across. How very interesting!
Kindest regards to all
Jock

In which case, just for you, from the broadway hit Avenue Q. [ame]https://youtu.be/jvcRQiOraGE[/ame]

The day you don’t learn something is the day you might as well give up.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Phew Andy, just a moment while I retune my hearing aids! Aaaaand, oh no, never, ever give up. Something new every day, just part of what makes life worth living.

 

[DaveMcT]

With mini islands, there's nothing wrong with driving over the white blob as long as you have right of way. Which (as we know) is there the rub lies. Some just barge over regardless other's wobble along trying to follow the tight turn and get in everyone's way

The USA has 4-way stops. The rule is first come first served, but you are required to stop and will get ticketed if a cop catches you out. Drivers are expected to merge at busy times. It makes more sense to me.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The USA has 4-way stops. The rule is first come first served, but you are required to stop and will get ticketed if a cop catches you out. Drivers are expected to merge at busy times. It makes more sense to me.

With my sister living a couple of hours west of Boston and my daughter and her family who were in Maryland for a 5 year posting I've done a fair bit of driving up and down the eastern US seaboard over the last 10 years or so. Roundabouts are quite rare to come across and give great amusement to European drivers who are used to them as the average american driver just doesn't really know what to make of them. Worth remembering if you're anywhere in the UK near a US base.

My brother-in-law gave me dire warnings about "running" stop signs. I was surprised to be told that you are required to actually come to a dead halt with no wheel movement and don't be surprised to get a ticket if you don't! Even out in the back of nowhere you have to be ready for the car in front to come to a complete halt at a stop sign, even without another vehicle being in sight in any direction! Some chancers will risk "dribbling" through the junction but if there is a Stop sign you really need to stop - especially if you're not a local - I think local police funds are raised with these moneys? I found I soon got used to it and quite like it. Because you are all stopping it seems to take the "competitive element" out of it and I found people were happy to move in turn in the order they arrive at the junction in good humour.

Another thing I was very nervous about at first but soon came to like was being able to make right turns against a red light. When doing this you don't have right of way over cross traffic but if the way is clear you can carry on and it works very well. It also means that people going straight on will be in the left lane so you don't tend to get people fighting over lanes so much at the lights. Very occasionally you'll come across a junction where this is prohibited and there will be signs to that effect but otherwise it's normal to go right on a red. So if the guy behind you is blowing his horn at you and gesturing to you to move, even though the light is red, now you know why. Guess how I learned that?

One thing I didn't like though was the frequent speed limit changes. Speed limits seem to change much more frequently over there, especially on 2 lane Blacktops (couldn't resist that - remember the film?) rather like I remember France used to be a few years ago - don't know what it's like now. It's very easy to miss a sign and the cops really do hide behind the billboards and come screaming after you to give you a speed violation ticket! It's better on Turnpikes Freeways and Interstates but you can still get caught out. Then you also have to be careful not to get in the E-Zpass electronic lanes as you approach the tolls otherwise you'll be fined if you go through and as most E-Zpass lanes are on the left (fast lane territory) and people will not be slowing down much, if at all, as they go through you've no chance of getting over the maybe 6 lanes or so to where the cash paying lanes are.

Although driving in the big cities can be frantic, Boston is pretty hectic and I didn't even think of trying New York, when you get out into the country it really is marvelous with very low traffic density. The first big drive we took was a leasurely few days following The Mohawk Trail staying in very rural but welcoming motels and lodges. Great fun.

 

[portland_bill]

With mini islands, there's nothing wrong with driving over the white blob as long as you have right of way.

Not true, sorry.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

Rule 188 states that you MUST go around the central markings, unless physically impossible to do so.

Crossing the blob without good reason can be treated the same as a white line offence, £100/3 points. "Failing to comply with a traffic sign" as the road markings are also traffic signs.

Sometimes a move to the left on entry will encourage a vehicle on the left to move into the roundabout thinking you might be turning left, so a straighter line can be justified, taking some of the spot. Rarely necessary to go over it all.

Chances of getting caught, slim. Lots of driving test failures though. (Not my students)

 

[dave]

Road "Give Way Markings"

As many a close shave with mini roundabouts and "straight liner over the top drivers" I noticed today that our local mini "crash opportunity" has be marked up again.

this is how a lot of idiots use one here

 

[s130]

And as for US driving:

I got caught out by this one and had to pay the ticket: "HEAD IN ONLY". Poxy little sign in a car park on a lamp post some 6 bays away.

And for my 50th my sister, a Deputy Sheriff in Florida "virtually" arrested me for the driving offence of "Coasting Down Hill In Neutral - FS 316.2024". I have a lovely official "Arrest Report", "Pre-Rap Sheet", "Probable Cause Affidavit", "Notice To Appear For Arraignment" and a lovely personalised official Orange and White Gail/custody wrist band.

I'm assured that despite all the official paper work, stamps and even her supervising sergeants name and signature that I have the only copy. If not then I will be rally grumpy!

 

[SB1500]

Not true, sorry.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

Rule 188 states that you MUST go around the central markings, unless physically impossible to do so.

Crossing the blob without good reason can be treated the same as a white line offence, £100/3 points. "Failing to comply with a traffic sign" as the road markings are also traffic signs.

Sometimes a move to the left on entry will encourage a vehicle on the left to move into the roundabout thinking you might be turning left, so a straighter line can be justified, taking some of the spot. Rarely necessary to go over it all.

Chances of getting caught, slim. Lots of driving test failures though. (Not my students)

Oops... I'm a huge offender in this category with one friend who always tells me it's wrong!!! I don't listen, because what does he know... but if you're saying it I now consider myself told!

 

[portland_bill]

Oops... I'm a huge offender in this category with one friend who always tells me it's wrong!!! I don't listen, because what does he know... but if you're saying it I now consider myself told!

Somewhere on a dusty shelf, is your old Highway Code, last looked at just before you passed your test. (Assumptions here)
Find it, dust it off and look through it. Just perusing the headings and sub-headings will likely bring moments that cause you to re-read bits and refresh your memory. There is a surprising amount of good advice in there, but difficult to read. It is written simply, so that people with few brain cells can understand it, as that should be no barrier to driving. (Usually the less 'clever' they are the better the driver) Reading it is like reading a story to a small child, you end up reading it aloud, but not taking anything in.

Read each rule or paragraph. Stop, think where and how that applies to your daily driving, or past experience. This will help set the rule into one's brain. Then when out, see how few follow the rules. Don't read more than a double-page at a time, or boredom sets in and all is lost.

Advice not just for SB1500, but for all of us. (Sad aren't I?)

 

[SB1500]

Somewhere on a dusty shelf, is your old Highway Code, last looked at just before you passed your test. (Assumptions here)

Find it, dust it off and look through it. Just perusing the headings and sub-headings will likely bring moments that cause you to re-read bits and refresh your memory. There is a surprising amount of good advice in there, but difficult to read. It is written simply, so that people with few brain cells can understand it, as that should be no barrier to driving. (Usually the less 'clever' they are the better the driver) Reading it is like reading a story to a small child, you end up reading it aloud, but not taking anything in.



Read each rule or paragraph. Stop, think where and how that applies to your daily driving, or past experience. This will help set the rule into one's brain. Then when out, see how few follow the rules. Don't read more than a double-page at a time, or boredom sets in and all is lost.



Advice not just for SB1500, but for all of us. (Sad aren't I?)

To think I always had a copy in the glovebox of my last Panda from 2015-2019. Never read it but clearly should have.

Think I will give that a read over as you say even the headings! Can only do good.

It’s only £2.49 or something from book shops too. No excuses!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

To think I always had a copy in the glovebox of my last Panda from 2015-2019. Never read it but clearly should have.

Think I will give that a read over as you say even the headings! Can only do good.

It’s only £2.49 or something from book shops too. No excuses!

In a country where attitudes are much changed now compared to when I was a youngster and the general attitude would seem to be "If you can get away with it then just do" I rather like to lead the simple life and just obey the rules. So, going to dig out that old copy and give it an eyeball. Thanks for the "prod" PB

 

[portland_bill]

Streaming cold, hot head, weak, feeling very sorry for myself today. Hopefully over the worst today, improving tomorrow.

As I get older, colds seem to get worse.

 

[Schumi2001]

Ahhh, you have the man flu!

And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

[s130]

Another road marking "as deployed" with road pinch points.

"Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
If the area is marked with chevrons and bordered by solid white lines you MUST NOT enter it except in an emergency."

We have loads of these and pinch points. As laid out the roads are wide enough for two vehicles with the central protection zone. When the pinch points occur then the protection zone reduces to a single line and there is just enough room for a bus and car.

The crass stupid thing is parking, even around the school is allowed so now traffic IS FORCED to drive over the protection zone. This now becomes the normal behaviour. Broken or Solid line marked protection zones should be respected as part of normal driving and one should only really encounter them (IHMO) as a real safety concern/condition and not be forced to drive over them as a daily routine.

 

[ChrisUK]

Car insurance renewal. I think it's set to double what I'm paying on my M140i because it would appear lots of people spec'd them with "comfort entry" and any idiot with internet access can buy what you need to steal one off the drive for <£50

 

[portland_bill]

The crass stupid thing is parking, even around the school is allowed so now traffic IS FORCED to drive over the protection zone. This now becomes the normal behaviour. Broken or Solid line marked protection zones should be respected as part of normal driving and one should only really encounter them (IHMO) as a real safety concern/condition and not be forced to drive over them as a daily routine.

Had a mishap at one of these in Oxford, November 1996.

From a mini-roundabout, the main road has a protection zone for vehicles turning right. Parked cars usually caused all traffic to run along the centre.
That evening, 5:15, dark, whilst waiting at the roundabout, I could see two cars in the centre reservation, front one signalling right. Unusually, the main lane to the left was clear, no parked vehicles.
Before my opportunity to go, 3 vehicles had passed along to the left of the two in the centre. As I passed, the front car turned right, the second car (now released) moved left inot the side of the Panda. Dent in door and quarter panel.
The idiot, who only lived a mile away, has come off the roundabout tight behind the other car, and got stuck when it signalled right and had to wait. Not paying attention, he'd not seen that the left lane was empty. Despite several cars passing him on the left, all with headlamps on, so not difficult to notice really, when the car ahead moved, he just steered left.

 

[puntofan01]

Car insurance renewal. I think it's set to double what I'm paying on my M140i because it would appear lots of people spec'd them with "comfort entry" and any idiot with internet access can buy what you need to steal one off the drive for <£50

I must say, I keep hearing about all these various issues with modern cars, and it just makes me so glad that I own an old, much less technologically evolved car!!

 

[varesecrazy]

My old neighbour had a flash Audi

Had to build a 'krooklok'

As they were being driven off in less than 2 minutes.. progress eh..

 

[The Panda Nut]

Somewhere on a dusty shelf, is your old Highway Code, last looked at just before you passed your test. (Assumptions here)
Find it, dust it off and look through it. Just perusing the headings and sub-headings will likely bring moments that cause you to re-read bits and refresh your memory. There is a surprising amount of good advice in there, but difficult to read. It is written simply, so that people with few brain cells can understand it, as that should be no barrier to driving. (Usually the less 'clever' they are the better the driver) Reading it is like reading a story to a small child, you end up reading it aloud, but not taking anything in.

Read each rule or paragraph. Stop, think where and how that applies to your daily driving, or past experience. This will help set the rule into one's brain. Then when out, see how few follow the rules. Don't read more than a double-page at a time, or boredom sets in and all is lost.

Advice not just for SB1500, but for all of us. (Sad aren't I?)

I agree with the sentiment, but the Code seems to change so often a new copy regularly is essential to avoid learning the wrong thing. If they gave the code a good overhaul and added more advice about modern conditions it would be good. I find that its often impossible to follow the rules these days and would appreciate rules that take account of traffic volumes speeds etc

Classic is the rule that says stay in the left lane on dual carriageways. While the situation of an empty lane 1 and a packed lane 3 is clearly silly, so is the idea of bobbing back and forward from one lane to another. We need to allow overtaking on both sides and encourage traffic to stay in lane. This would probably reduce the higher speed drivers by causing the whole road to be occupied. HGV's hogging the outside lane mile after mile is another issue that needs to be considered.

We could also do with a new offence of discourteous driving so that the rude and aggressive behaviour we all have to tolerate to often are outlawed and penalised far more often.

The idea of co operation needs to be brought to the fore if driving is going to continue with greater traffic volumes.

But sad you are not, we all need to know the rules so we can act predictably and safely.