Technical unlock key from ecu

[dagdromer]

I'm a step further in my quest to get my non working remote button key working again ,see https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/getting-the-vin-number-from-the-ecu.491288/page-2 , but I'm afraid that I reached a dead end.

I've taken the key to several lock smiths and none of them can provide a new working key with the remote in it. They can all clone the normal key for around 75 euros.

One of the lock smiths was kind enough to share his experience and he said that quite often the antenna spool will come off the pcb or the spool itself would fry itself. Unfortunately the last was the case. It took some searching but I was able to buy a new spool and soldered on the pcb. After this the car still did not respond to the remote and would not start with the key. Assuming that the key needed to be relearned into the ECU I fired up MES and went trough all the steps.
the last time I did that with the defect spool it would throw an error stating that the key transponder did not function right but now it told me that this key was marked as locked in the ECU and that it could no longer being used. This means that the key is talking with the ECU so the fix worked but because of its status in the ECU can not be used.
It seems that somebody prior to me tried something with the keys and even tho he got an error on the key proceeded to program the ECU with only 1 working key.

Now is the question can I undo the lock in the ECU for this key?

 

[chris3234]

I'm a step further in my quest to get my non working remote button key working again ,see https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/getting-the-vin-number-from-the-ecu.491288/page-2 , but I'm afraid that I reached a dead end.

I've taken the key to several lock smiths and none of them can provide a new working key with the remote in it. They can all clone the normal key for around 75 euros.

One of the lock smiths was kind enough to share his experience and he said that quite often the antenna spool will come off the pcb or the spool itself would fry itself. Unfortunately the last was the case. It took some searching but I was able to buy a new spool and soldered on the pcb. After this the car still did not respond to the remote and would not start with the key. Assuming that the key needed to be relearned into the ECU I fired up MES and went trough all the steps.
the last time I did that with the defect spool it would throw an error stating that the key transponder did not function right but now it told me that this key was marked as locked in the ECU and that it could no longer being used. This means that the key is talking with the ECU so the fix worked but because of its status in the ECU can not be used.
It seems that somebody prior to me tried something with the keys and even tho he got an error on the key proceeded to program the ECU with only 1 working key.

Now is the question can I undo the lock in the ECU for this key?

Not as far as I'm aware certainly not with mes

You probably could do it if you got the body computer/engine ecu both virgnised but that would be quick or cheep

 

[koalar]

wrong software

MES can not do anything with a key except add a working preprogramed key. If it does not add then you are just wasting your time with MES

zed-full plus others will clear and add the key.

 

[dagdromer]

Not as far as I'm aware certainly not with mes

You probably could do it if you got the body computer/engine ecu both virgnised but that would be quick or cheep

What do I need to perform that operation?

wrong software

MES can not do anything with a key except add a working preprogramed key. If it does not add then you are just wasting your time with MES

zed-full plus others will clear and add the key.

Only zed-full can do this or is there any other software program that I can use to do this.

 

[koalar]

What do I need to perform that operation?



Only zed-full can do this or is there any other software program that I can use to do this.

mvp

possibly more nothing cheap when I looked about a year ago

There are way by removing the body computer and directly connecting to the board with an adapter. Very dangerous, writing manually the wrong information could leave you permanently locked out of the system or worse still wire wrongly and damage the module

 

[dagdromer]

I understand that there are risks involved in doing things like this. I'm a software engineer by trade and have an electronics background so with a little guidance I think I'm willing to take a gamble.

 

[koalar]

Take a look at iprog v87

And see if you can find a list of makes, model’s, functions.

Fairly sure there’s a YouTube of a Fiat key being done. Maybe 75% might have been a 500 or van

On a mobile at the moment so can’t be bothered to search

 

[koalar]

Take a look at iprog v87

And see if you can find a list of makes, model’s, functions.

Fairly sure there’s a YouTube of a Fiat key being done. Maybe 75% might have been a 500 or van

On a mobile at the moment so can’t be bothered to search

had a look, now on a larger screen. Couldn't find any useful on iprog. Looks to have potential but you may find yourself on yourself going round in circles.

you can download the software and see if there's any inbuilt instructions

but if it was me at the moment I would give it a miss

mhhauto.com have lots of information on software and hardware for programming keys

 

[koalar]

Keys marked locked is normal for any key that are in the system that aren't all presented to the system during the programming

Say you have two keys and when you run the software you only add one key.

that key will work but the other will be locked. Assuming they were stolen

I dont know about MES but normally you just rerun the add keys making sure you cycle through all the working keys you have present

 

[dagdromer]

MES does not allow you to add a prior blocked / blacklisted key. If you run the procedure in MES it explicitly tells you to make sure you have all keys with you before programming to prevent keys to be locked out. I assume that the previous owner had a go at reprogramming and did not read the instructions correct. when the key is faulty it will give an error that the key is not added to the list of to be programmed keys but it allows you to continu programming. So if you save the new list of keys it will block the faulty key in the BCM and only allow the car to be started with the 1 correct key.

I can try it with other other software tools like delphi, bosch or snap-on but i'm not given it much hope.

I see that there is a lot of knowledge to be found on the DigitalKaos forums regarding reflashing the ecu's, hopefully I will find some hint and or tricks there. I will keep you all updated on the progress.

 

[koalar]

MES does not allow you to add a prior blocked / blacklisted key. If you run the procedure in MES it explicitly tells you to make sure you have all keys with you before programming to prevent keys to be locked out. I assume that the previous owner had a go at reprogramming and did not read the instructions correct. when the key is faulty it will give an error that the key is not added to the list of to be programmed keys but it allows you to continu programming. So if you save the new list of keys it will block the faulty key in the BCM and only allow the car to be started with the 1 correct key.

I can try it with other other software tools like delphi, bosch or snap-on but i'm not given it much hope.

I see that there is a lot of knowledge to be found on the DigitalKaos forums regarding reflashing the ecu's, hopefully I will find some hint and or tricks there. I will keep you all updated on the progress.

had a look at my copies of delphi and wow

they doesn't support key programming on the panda

 

[DaveMcT]

It sounds like the ECU will have to be reset to factory settings (virginised). That will lose all stored data and allow it to pair (again) to the other ECUs in the car.

 

[dagdromer]

yes I agree but finding out how to achieve that is quite the challenge. I haven't found anybody yet that can tell me what kind of soft and or hardware is required to do so and who is willing to help and give some directions where to look.

 

[A3jeroen]

There are companies (I think I've seen them on MarktPlaats) that virginise FIAT ECU's and BCM's for a fee.

Edit: I've had one from YellowStilo on FiatForum. Don't know if he is still around and still does stuff like this. Was about 10 years ago he provided an Abarth instrument cluster and later a virginised ECU for my Stilo.

gr J

 

[dagdromer]

Stil haven't found anybody that is willing to share knowledge or perform the tast for me. I think to do it myself I need a tool like I/O Terminal, ADVI or SMOG. they all start at 400 euro which I'm fine with if I can find somebody with knowledge that is willing to learn me something.

But for now I want the car to have 2 working keys. Besides the flip key with the fob I have dumb key that has no battery or buttons. It cannot be opened. I assume that in there there is a transponder that does not require power. Does anybody know what the type of the transponder is (ID46 or ID48) and does this transponder also requires precoding before I can add it to the computer? If this works, I can buy a transponder, stick it in the key fob housing, add the transponder to the list of valid keys using MES and use both keys.

 

[koalar]

Stil haven't found anybody that is willing to share knowledge or perform the tast for me. I think to do it myself I need a tool like I/O Terminal, ADVI or SMOG. they all start at 400 euro which I'm fine with if I can find somebody with knowledge that is willing to learn me something.

But for now I want the car to have 2 working keys. Besides the flip key with the fob I have dumb key that has no battery or buttons. It cannot be opened. I assume that in there there is a transponder that does not require power. Does anybody know what the type of the transponder is (ID46 or ID48) and does this transponder also requires precoding before I can add it to the computer? If this works, I can buy a transponder, stick it in the key fob housing, add the transponder to the list of valid keys using MES and use both keys.

yep. I find when people are charging over £200 for something that only takes a few minutes they are unlikely to share as they are doing themselves out of business

there are two sperate codes stored on/in the key
remote opening is precoded to the car and is soldered onto the PCB
the transponder for starting the car is precoded but can be cloned from a working key. This is a drop in separate module.

look on aliexpess some of the sellers give the date at which the ID number changed.

 

[DaveMcT]

The immobiliser transponder is easy to get coded at any auto locksmiths. The radio "Plip" is the hard part especially if you don't have the original plip key.

 

[dagdromer]

I have (I think) a full working plip key. the problem I'm facing is that somebody marked that key as lost in the ECU. and nobody can undo that.

I understand that a lock smith can "code" a new key. but most of them clone the only working key. That works great until that key gets blocked as well. then there are no new keys in the ECU anymore.

I would like to add a new transponder ID to the list of keys in the ECU and add that transponder temporary in the plip key till I find somebody that can help me with undo action.

 

[DaveMcT]

I think your only option is to have the ECU "virginised" - put back to factory settings. This wipes all data stored (a) when it was first powered up in the car and (b) the key data. The ECU will then lock itself into the car when first powered up and you will be able to add keys.

 

[koalar]

I have (I think) a full working plip key. the problem I'm facing is that somebody marked that key as lost in the ECU. and nobody can undo that.

I understand that a lock smith can "code" a new key. but most of them clone the only working key. That works great until that key gets blocked as well. then there are no new keys in the ECU anymore.

I would like to add a new transponder ID to the list of keys in the ECU and add that transponder temporary in the plip key till I find somebody that can help me with undo action.

there's 8 slots for keys

as long as there not all full you can add another key

search on YouTube

" all key lost fiat"

you can read the information direct from the body computer.

the equipment isnt cheap and in my opinion not worth it for a one off just get a auto locksmith do it for you