Tuning turbo time!

[craigb244]

yeh it could of just been a bad frequency on the cam or something on the thrust part of the cam... thats all i can think because its defiantly behind/around the coils and thats the only thing around there. would be nice to run it without the coils to see if it moved strangely with the noise but oil is fed thru there so it would make a mess

 

[fingers99]

thats exactly what i would of thought... high reving high horse power engines have light weight rods and thin rods (ever seen bike rods?!) this is to lower inertia and bearing/piston side loading and even to the point of air(and oil resistance in the car of wet sumps) resistance.
low reving high torque engines have thicker rods... bit like diesels but i think that would be a bad example as our engines dont have half the combustion pressure of a diesel

What i dont get is that Tricker says hes almost getting 200hp from hes engine? has Oldschool tested this or is it just a guess?

Ideally you want the lightest rods you can get away with. Look at the aluminium rods used in dragsters. Replace after every run. Or the Ti rods used in F1 cars.

Fact is, though, that the FIRE engines were never intended to be high revving, especially the longer stroke ones. The bore/stroke ratio is all wrong and the valve area will never be big enough. Some of the features on the 1242 engine (and the 1.4) are little more than corrective measures. If you want real rods, go for Carrillo: they'll be a fair bit heavier, but won't break.

Incidentally, the 8v 1108 rods are not iron (as someone stated), you can't use iron for rods as iron is great in compression, crap in tension. Rods always break in tension. Always.

I'm with Old School on this.....................

 

[Munkul]

the 8v FIRE engines love to be revved apparently they can run all day at 8k with no problems, and what i remember of the powerband of my 8v would support this; the thing ran at the 7.5k limiter half its life!

 

[craigb244]

Ideally you want the lightest rods you can get away with. Look at the aluminium rods used in dragsters. Replace after every run. Or the Ti rods used in F1 cars.

Fact is, though, that the FIRE engines were never intended to be high revving, especially the longer stroke ones. The bore/stroke ratio is all wrong and the valve area will never be big enough. Some of the features on the 1242 engine (and the 1.4) are little more than corrective measures. If you want real rods, go for Carrillo: they'll be a fair bit heavier, but won't break.

Incidentally, the 8v 1108 rods are not iron (as someone stated), you can't use iron for rods as iron is great in compression, crap in tension. Rods always break in tension. Always.

I'm with Old School on this.....................

the 16valve rods are much lighter then the 8valve ones. 100g is i remember.
which is loads when (iirc) the 16valve rods are 700g.
they are a much better design that is almost always used in more modern engines.
shame the rods cant be fitted onto 8valve pistons as the gudgeon is not the same size. I recon they will be good for a high reving N/A

 

[gazzaman2k]

did you use the standard fiat shells and rings when doing this engine?

 

[craigb244]

yes the shells are identical as are the rings

 

[craigb244]

fitted an intercooler fan today. it was from a new Ducati radiator. they have two.
the fan is really powerful and can really feel it sucking thru the intercooler.
have not drove the car with it yet (not sure what temps to have it come on) but at idle when fully warmed up it instantly drops the temps to below out side air temperature. so i think its going to work well.
fitted sooo well to (no ones have scary until they day they drill a hole thru the centre of a intercooler)

 

[allanhelen]

Slightly off topic, but i wonder how well a chargecooler would work on a cento rather than struggling with small FMIC?

Just thinking you could use one of the inline heat exchangers that are good for HP only ever dreamt of in cento's and use a Cento aircon radiator to cool the water with added fans to avoid heat soak

 

[craigb244]

you mean an air to liquid intercooler connected to a second cento radiator mounted where the aircon radiator would be?

 

[allanhelen]

you mean an air to liquid intercooler connected to a second cento radiator mounted where the aircon radiator would be?

yep

 

[craigb244]

humm... do you think the gains would be worth it? cos its quite a lot more weight the core probably weighs the same as an intercooler but you have a couple of litres of water a pump and radiator.

hey what mpg to you get on the turbo? I got just over 50mpg on a 280mile drive yesterday... about 200 of that been motorway work

 

[allanhelen]

humm... do you think the gains would be worth it? cos its quite a lot more weight the core probably weighs the same as an intercooler but you have a couple of litres of water a pump and radiator.

hey what mpg to you get on the turbo? I got just over 50mpg on a 280mile drive yesterday... about 200 of that been motorway work

I don't know potentially the cooling effect could be greater considering the increased sufrace area plus there are lots of differnt bits of kit using them as std do can't be that bad, it just may be a solution to the compromised intake path we all live with and as far as i know not yet done on a cento

MPG 50MPG? sure you worked it out right I can get 230ish max from tankfull and that is mid 30's at best my worst is just over 90 miles on a tank average is 150 to 180 miles between brim fill ups

 

[J333EVO]

50MPG, a Cento has a 35L tank so you would need to get 385miles for 35L to get 50mpg.

230miles for 35L = 29.87mpg, but was roughly what I got from the turbo Cinq when I had mine.

http://www.torquecars.com/tools/uk-mpg-calculator.php

 

[craigb244]

i was quite impressed with it! it did much better on fuel then my N/A
i turned my boost controller off so that it was running stock waste gate boost (.3bar)
i drove like a nutter when i first got on the motorway (having the fuel gauge pointing up made me do it)
but i drove like a granny on the way home.

surely if driven right the turbo will make the engine more efficient?

 

[allanhelen]

well in your case obviously as you have managed to get better economy than I ever managed on stock NA

if you stay off boost I supose they can be as economical as an NA and maybe on light boost as you don't have to rev it the same

but in my case with the car set as it is i find it hard to keep off boost :devil: :slayer:

 

[craigb244]

wont a turbo make is more economical in the way turbo diesels do?
I find now with the turbo I dont just floor it to get upto speed and it takes a lot less time to get there

also i turned the off boost cruising part of the map to a lean as possible just above the point it starts to surge.

It is hard to keep off boost on the motorway. you only have to touch the throttle and your at full boost and speeding up

 

[arc]

turbos where intially put on cars to increase their economy weren't they?

re charge coolers, how small can you get them? i mean, this one was pretty heavy.. and bulky!



but if you could fit a smaller one, and sitck the rad at the back of the car - it might all fit.

is there anything actually wrong with the current intercooler setups tho, has anyone probed the pre and post intercooler charge temps?

 

[allanhelen]

turbos where intially put on cars to increase their economy weren't they?

Sort of wasn't it that you extract more power from a smaller engine when required so not having to live with poor consumption of a similarly powered larger engined car?

re charge coolers, how small can you get them? i mean, this one was pretty heavy.. and bulky!

but if you could fit a smaller one, and sitck the rad at the back of the car - it might all fit.

is there anything actually wrong with the current intercooler setups tho, has anyone probed the pre and post intercooler charge temps?

I was looking at a Focus and a VW that had them fitted and they were very neat, i could see the exchanger sitting in the gear box area (a smaller version of this for example) and using a front mounted radiator like the one used for the aircon I don't know if it would give any big benefits, but i've always thought the VAD intercooler is a bit on the small side but this could give more cooing potential without resulting in a huge increase in intake volume and giving more lag

 

[StoneNewt]

is there anything actually wrong with the current intercooler setups tho, has anyone probed the pre and post intercooler charge temps?

Is there anything wrong with conventional setups? Well most intercoolers from car manus are designed to give okay efficiency at low cost, you can get an intercooler with lower volume & higher flow rates that removes more heat but this costs money.

I've not got air temps pre and post IC but certainly both the V70 & Sei's IC are getting air temps down below +20C ambient,exact delta is dependent on atmospheric conditions. In light drizzle/mist the Sei's ambient/charge temp delta almost halves compared to hot dry air.

 

[J333EVO]

Not really on topic, but MR2 Turbo owners fit the charge-cooler from the GT4 and use a Cinq rad as its a perfect fit in the side aperture and do away with the poor intercooler thats fitted as standard.

My GT4's charge cooler has a pretty big rad, in fact whole front of the GT4 is full of rads, engine, charge-cooler, oil-cooler, aircon, packaging is pretty neat. Charge cooler pump only runs on throttle its doesn't run on idle and has been tested and shown to be much more efficient this way than constant running pump, a sometimes fudged mod when fitting MR2 Turbo Blitz or Mines ECU's as about half price of GT4 specific ones.

The intercooler on the integrale is very efficient, made by same company in "West Germany" (shows age) as the Ferrari F40 intercoolers. Been tested upto easy 400bhp, it was same intercooler as used by the WRC teams as had to be under the then Group A rules.

I have a Fiat Coupe 16V turbo intercooler sat in my garage doing nothing, its a good size, looks well made