Technical Timing Belt- Too tight or too loose?

[Bernievarian]

The elearning instructions say to lock the cams, remove the belt and position the 1 and 2 pistons half way up the cylinders with number one on the descending stroke.

That's EXACTLY what I said... The attached picture clearly shows the 1st cylinder intake valves are fully closed (cams are up) when the notch faces the locking tool hole.
At this position the CRANKshaft should have its dowel opposite to the sensor.

BRs, Bernie

 

[judderbar]

That's EXACTLY what I said... The attached picture clearly shows the 1st cylinder intake valves are fully closed (cams are up) when the notch faces the locking tool hole.
At this position the CRANKshaft should have its dowel opposite to the sensor.

BRs, Bernie

Something I overlooked here was Emerson was using that crankshaft tool which positions the crankshaft correctly whereas just the cylinder tools do not guarantee the correct position.

Even so it is an easy mistake to make for most people who only have the cylinder tools where even Haynes does not make it clear how to position the pistons.

By the way on those timing marks using the DIY method because of the distance between the two sprockets it would never be possible for the small crankshaft socket mark to rotate the length of the belt in only two engine revolutions so perhaps with the combination of these factors for both sprockets it explains why it can take forever to get the marks to line up if you only rotate forwards from a correctly timed position.

Like it or not Emerson asked the question about the marks and I gave him an answer. The marks do not easily line up again.

 

[everson38]

Hey guys. So I am 90% done. Everything is timined up nicely. The problem I am having is keep the belt central on the Cam pulley. I centre it. Then tension down with the grooves aligned on the tensioner, but as I rotate the crank by hand the timing belt works it's way to the edge. I keep rotating to see if it wants to work itself self off all together which it doesn't. But the belt just loves that cam sprocket edge?????

Any ideas

 

[everson38]

Pics of tim8ng belt moving to edge of Cam pull

 

[everson38]

In addition to the belt moving during hand rotation of the crank. Once I have done my two relevolutions with it tensioned as it should, once I finish my rotation the tensioner is sitting just off it's Mark (see pic) and the belt would of moved across the cam pulley. I'm am seriously stuck I don't know how to just have it so the belt sits true on cam and once you finish the rotations the tensioner sits back aligned. HELLLLPPPP lol.

 

[Bernievarian]

The belt,in essence, is lazy so will always try to sit in the easyest path (like water, electricity and Yes, yourself. So once it's seated correctly, re-adjust the tensioner and you'll be fine.

BRs, Bernie

 

[everson38]

The belt,in essence, is lazy so will always try to sit in the easyest path (like water, electricity and Yes, yourself. So once it's seated correctly, re-adjust the tensioner and you'll be fine.

BRs, Bernie

Thanks for this . In regards to the belt moving along the CAM sprocket, do you have any ideas on how to keep it central on the pulley. I have tried retensioning it and then doing my revolutions but always wants to move to edge? Worried it will slip off all together when under power of car?

 

[judderbar]

Thanks for this . In regards to the belt moving along the CAM sprocket, do you have any ideas on how to keep it central on the pulley. I have tried retensioning it and then doing my revolutions but always wants to move to edge? Worried it will slip off all together when under power of car?

What you see happening is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. The approved procedure is to allow the belt to find its natural position and then check both the timing and the tension is sufficiently good.

Place the belt in its natural position (which you have now found) and then set the tension.

 

[Bernievarian]

Thanks for this . In regards to the belt moving along the CAM sprocket, do you have any ideas on how to keep it central on the pulley.

I believe the belt will be aligned to the water pump pulley's flanges and won't slip off the cam pulley ... I have attached a picture of the pump pulley; BTW do you know how to make screen-captures, direct from windows, of the e-learn pages ??

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[everson38]

I believe the belt will be aligned to the water pump pulley's flanges and won't slip off the cam pulley ... I have attached a picture of the pump pulley; BTW do you know how to make screen-captures, direct from windows, of the e-learn pages ??

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Hey berne, thanks for this, was getting worried about it. So final thing, as you saw in my previous picture ,i tensioned the belt correctly and rotated the crank 2 times, now the tensioner is sitting just off perfect alignment, do i re-tension back to perfect or leave it as is?

In regards to screen shots /pics that one thing i do not know how to do via pc i have to take pics on phone and then upload them via Fiat forum App

 

[everson38]

What you see happening is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. The approved procedure is to allow the belt to find its natural position and then check both the timing and the tension is sufficiently good.

Place the belt in its natural position (which you have now found) and then set the tension.

Thanks again Judd, so just to be crystal clear. leave the belt how it is and now just re adjust the tensioner back to its "perfect" setting i.e have the tension marks align.?

 

[judderbar]

Thanks again Judd, so just to be crystal clear. leave the belt how it is and now just re adjust the tensioner back to its "perfect" setting i.e have the tension marks align.?

Sort of.

As you say but after you tighten the tensioner then rotate and recheck tension and timing. That is the procedure that I know of. The timing is never going to be exactly right but at least when you turn the ignition key you can be confidant something is not going to go horribly wrong.

 

[Bernievarian]

Hey berne, thanks for this, was getting worried about it. So final thing, as you saw in my previous picture ,i tensioned the belt correctly and rotated the crank 2 times, now the tensioner is sitting just off perfect alignment, do i re-tension back to perfect or leave it as is?

In regards to screen shots /pics that one thing i do not know how to do via pc i have to take pics on phone and then upload them via Fiat forum App

1: rotating the engine 2 turns had the belt "sitting in", so the tensioner is now a bit "sloppy", you have to readjust it to marks in order to straighten its inner spring.

2: screenshots:
- have what you want to get DISPLAYED on the screen (zoom etc)
- press (together) Alt and Prnt Scrn keys: that copies the screen to the clipboard
- open Paint or any other picture SW and paste the clipboard content (Ctrl-V), edit the picture if necessary and save it in the folder you like.

If working on a laptop, you might have to use the Fn key (usually printed in blue) to access the Prnt Scrn function ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

 

[everson38]

1: rotating the engine 2 turns had the belt "sitting in", so the tensioner is now a bit "sloppy", you have to readjust it to marks in order to straighten its inner spring.

2: screenshots:
- have what you want to get DISPLAYED on the screen (zoom etc)
- press (together) Alt and Prnt Scrn keys: that copies the screen to the clipboard
- open Paint or any other picture SW and paste the clipboard content (Ctrl-V), edit the picture if necessary and save it in the folder you like.

If working on a laptop, you might have to use the Fn key (usually printed in blue) to access the Prnt Scrn function ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Thanks as always. I'm resuming upnfinishing on my car tomorrow. So I'll.let you knows how it goes. Thanks for the pc, sometimes I use forum via computer and 8ts good to know that.

 

[Bernievarian]

Thanks as always. I'm resuming upnfinishing on my car tomorrow. So I'll.let you knows how it goes. Thanks for the pc, sometimes I use forum via computer and 8ts good to know that.

Hi Everson,

now that you've finished with the car, you could practice a bit the Alt/Prtn Scrn stuff and also the various interesting features you can find in Paint (windows accessories), like circling part of picture, adding text, arrows, etc. ;-)

BRs, Bernie

 

[everson38]

Hi Everson,

now that you've finished with the car, you could practice a bit the Alt/Prtn Scrn stuff and also the various interesting features you can find in Paint (windows accessories), like circling part of picture, adding text, arrows, etc. ;-)

BRs, Bernie

Hey Berne.

Thanks for all your help. I've pretty much finished the job. I performed my first start up and this is how she sounds: [ame]https://youtu.be/sWiI7Hh4dOo[/ame]

I noticed she sounds a little ticky/ cammy. If there was to be a bent valve what would be the signs? Basically I want to know if everything is ok? Have a watch.

Thanks

 

[everson38]

Sort of.

As you say but after you tighten the tensioner then rotate and recheck tension and timing. That is the procedure that I know of. The timing is never going to be exactly right but at least when you turn the ignition key you can be confidant something is not going to go horribly wrong.

Hey Jud. Just want to say big thanks for you help appreciate. I have my first start up of my car in about 2 weeks. I wanted to know if everything is good? How would know if something horrible has or hasn't gone wrong?

Would appreciate if you took a watch: [ame]https://youtu.be/sWiI7Hh4dOo[/ame]

Thanks

 

[Bernievarian]

Sounds just fine IMO Everson ! Don't get mad about "ticky" sounds, any engine would have some, that some people would hear and other won't ; taking care is good, being paranoïd is not, but I'm maybe wrong ...

BRs, Bernie

 

[everson38]

Sounds just fine IMO Everson ! Don't get mad about "ticky" sounds, any engine would have some, that some people would hear and other won't ; taking care is good, being paranoïd is not, but I'm maybe wrong ...

BRs, Bernie

Yeah I know it is a worrying th8ng where you are being paranoid or in fact correct. I mean I know the timing is correct, I ended up checking that so many times and rotating the engine. I'll see how I get on and keep informed. If all ok I'm hoping to do a write u0 for the tjet engine.

 

[judderbar]

Hey Jud. Just want to say big thanks for you help appreciate. I have my first start up of my car in about 2 weeks. I wanted to know if everything is good? How would know if something horrible has or hasn't gone wrong?

Would appreciate if you took a watch: https://youtu.be/sWiI7Hh4dOo

Thanks

going horribly wrong after you set the tensioner is starting it with the timing wrong or a forgotten tool causing the belt to slip and you end up with a broken engine.

That tapping. You have a 2009 1.4 tjet which uses hydraulic tappets. Does that sound like hydraulic tappet noise? To me it sounds more out in the open and could be the injectors which can be relatively very noisy on an older car.

You can locate that exact tapping noise with a long handled screwdriver with the blade placed on the injectors and top part of the car with the handle against your ear. You will easily be able to locate where that noise is coming from. That noise will very clearly be coming from a specific location. You can safely run the engine with the air filter off so you get good access to the top part of the engine

Learning how to listen to your engine is a great way to ensure the car is not doing anything unusual.