Technical oil drain plug too deep

[NofarGrandePunto]

well hello
i own a 2011 1.2 GP which i really love.
a couple days ago i wanted to do an oil change (cuz it was time. i do it on my own) and i was having trouble open the bolt i closed last time (ironic). so i ask my strong BF to help out. it took him some time, but he made it. we drained, closed with a new bolt, re-filled new oil
and there was a leak.
so i bought another new bolt, drained the oil, closed we the new bolt i just bought.
and it went so deep. still leaking, BTW.

can anyone plz help me understand what went wrong? i own this car for 3 years, never happened to me before.

 

[eeeno]

Oh no!

My guess is that the threads on the sump got damaged by over tightening the drain plug. Now would be good idea to ask a local mechanic for an advice.

 

[varesecrazy]

Or an undersized plug.. :-(

 

[jackwhoo]

Try with the old drain plug.
See if it goes in less far.
If you find a plug that goes in for less far use ptfe tape to help it seal

 

[Cornish Ian]

well hello
i own a 2011 1.2 GP which i really love.
a couple days ago i wanted to do an oil change (cuz it was time. i do it on my own) and i was having trouble open the bolt i closed last time (ironic). so i ask my strong BF to help out. it took him some time, but he made it. we drained, closed with a new bolt, re-filled new oil
and there was a leak.
so i bought another new bolt, drained the oil, closed we the new bolt i just bought.
and it went so deep. still leaking, BTW.

can anyone plz help me understand what went wrong? i own this car for 3 years, never happened to me before.

View attachment 422733View attachment 422734

It looks like you might be able to effect a seal on the outer flange with a dowty washer/ seal if you can find a bolt / blanking plug to fit the thread.
M22x1.5 perhaps?

 

[The Panda Nut]

The tightening torque is not very much on sump plugs. Dont be tempted tpo over tighten when you get something sorted. If you dont have any other success Red Hermetite can so,metimes work wonders as a temporary fix.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

As you may know this is a taper fit. I'm not sure if it's just the plug that's tapered or both the plug and hole - I would guess more likely just the plug?

I've seen some which go further into the hole than others but never seen one go in that far. Usually some of the threads are left exposed. What was the old one like? my guess would be it's the new plug that's the problem and I'd be trying the old one again. Trying to swap the plugs over can be messy if you're not practiced at it so get an empty 5 litre oil can, which should be nice and clean if it's only had new oil in it, and cut the side out of it. Now you can drain the new oil into it and spend as much time as you need to fiddle about with the sump plug. Then put it, the oil, back into the engine after you've sorted things out.

I've often found sump plugs on these engines overtightened and had to take a powerbar to them to loosen them. I think the problem is that the threads get well lubricated by the old oil draining out so when you put the plug back in it is very easy to overtighten due to the lubricant. Then, over the period of a year or so - typically the time interval between services - the oil gets squeezed out/dries up and the plug is then much more difficult to unscrew. I've heard of the entire female threaded "boss" being torn out of the sump because the plug was so tight! (although I've never actually seen this myself).

I think Fiat recommend a tightening torque of around 20 to 30Nm which, if you think about it is about how tight you'd do a spark plug - so not really that tight at all, just "snug". I do them up by feel, but then I've been doing this sort of thing all my life.

Over tightening and consequent stripping of threads on sump plugs is very common on a wide range of vehicles and is especially a problem with the number of vehicles which now have cast aluminium sumps. There's a thriving industry based around selling dedicated thread repair kits, like this:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15542010...xBMCop02cXxSjlq8XivKg+4Uw=|tkp:Bk9SR6jt2ZGEYg and that wouldn't be the case if there wasn't a market for them.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

If you're wanting to try a sealant of some sort I'd be a bit careful using plumbers tape as I'd worry loose ends might get sucked into the pickup strainer?

Panda Nut above mentions Red Hermetite, an excellent product which brings back many memories of Mrs J cursing how difficult it is totrying wash it out of clothing. A similar product, which I've had success with is wellseal: https://advancedautomotives.com/stag-wellseal-gasket-jointing-compound-100ml-tube-1466-p.asp Trouble will be getting the threads oilfree?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

By the way. Your sump pan is an "interesting" shape. Did it get distorted like that when you were undoing the seized plug, or has it been hit by something? I'm wondering if it might restrict flow to the pickup pipe?

 

[varesecrazy]

Somebody a while back had this issue

The Service Kit they bought had an undersize (too small diameter) plug

They refitted the original and all was fine

(My suspicion is that both Male and Female are tapered.. but never had a problem reusing what came out for 35 years on @25 FIRE motors )

 

[portland_bill]

As said, the plug is tapered. I've seen one like this before, where the plug had been overtightened over many years, but this sump looks young.
Where did the replacement plug come from? There has been atleast one thread on here before where an aftermarket plug was not tapered, so just went straight through. A genuine plug from Fiat used to be quite cheap.
Sadly, Shop4parts are out of stock: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Product&ProdID=956
But this does show the potential price. Your nearest Fiat dealer should have a bagful available.

 

[vexorg]

If it's a new plug then I;d say wrong one, straight instead of tapered.

 

[Yolanda]

I've never seen a plug go that far in either.The OP says that plug is the second new one he's tried so they could be badly manufactured
.I fitted a new one last service from ECP and when tightend there was a couple of threads exposed as PAJ mentioned.
I can't remember if I binned the old plug or chucked it in the bits and bob's box, I'll have a look to see if its a tapered thread.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Where did the replacement plug come from? There has been atleast one thread on here before where an aftermarket plug was not tapered, so just went straight through. A genuine plug from Fiat used to be quite cheap.

I think I remember reading that post too. It would be useful for us all to know where this plug came from - supplier and brand perhaps? - It's not an expensive purchase so getting one from a main dealer, if you've one handily nearby, might be the way to go?

 

[jackwhoo]

The original poster is in Israel

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The original poster is in Israel

Yes, I noticed that Jack. Could still be handy to know the brand though, what with all the globalization that goes on these days? My bet is on it being a poorly made plug. I don't see how even someone very ham fisted could manage to screw one in that far?

 

[NofarGrandePunto]

wow, thank you guys so much!
both the plugs came from a parts store. 2 parts stores actually. when the first didn't fit right i went to another parts store. and they were very thorough to find the right plug for my car.
but hell, i don't mind go to another one. third time's a charm!
i have a fear that the sump threads are dead (tappered, right?) and that i need to change the entire sump.
either way tomorrow i'll buy another plug from original fiat workshop (if they'll have it. it's quit difficult to find the bolt, i swear) and i'll try to find a new sump at a decent price, just to be on the safe side. i've been told it's dangerous to drive like this and it's my daily O_O

 

[NofarGrandePunto]

Yes, I noticed that Jack. Could still be handy to know the brand though, what with all the globalization that goes on these days? My bet is on it being a poorly made plug. I don't see how even someone very ham fisted could manage to screw one in that far?

i swear it was without any kind of force.
BTW, i do all the services by myself. it was a shock for me that it was so hard to open the bolt THAT I CLOSED BY MYSELF, i've never got to the point where i need help to replace oil. awful and very strange.
anyway both new bolts came in with minimum force.


unfortunately i tossed away the old bolt by mistake so there's no going back now. but he wasnt original, he was oem.

 

[portland_bill]

It is likely that you'll need a new sump, if the hole has opened out due to the plugs being screwed in that far.
Hopefully the Fiat dealer will have a new one, they are fitted to most Fiats, so a common replacement, and that will not go in too deep.

Many years ago, I bought a hex key for the plug on my classic Panda. (probably 1994) It is a short key, only about 100mm long, so prevents much force being used. I often have to use a larger tool to remove the plug, but always use the short one to refit it.

 

[NofarGrandePunto]

It is likely that you'll need a new sump, if the hole has opened out due to the plugs being screwed in that far.
Hopefully the Fiat dealer will have a new one, they are fitted to most Fiats, so a common replacement, and that will not go in too deep.

Many years ago, I bought a hex key for the plug on my classic Panda. (probably 1994) It is a short key, only about 100mm long, so prevents much force being used. I often have to use a larger tool to remove the plug, but always use the short one to refit it.

thank you! i'm using 12mm elen key, with the help of the thingie that you open your tyres with (tyre iron?) cuz it's hollow and super comfty. untill now it worked, it was the first time i couldn't do it by myself.