Technical Strut top question!

[Myusername]

So busy day on the Panda!

Rear shock absorbers - quite easy, and rear knocking completely gone. Result!

Front wishbone - quite straightforward, rear bush indeed split. Sorted!

But...I noticed something strange about the front struts - they don't seem central on the hole in the inner wing, resulting in a gap that allows you to see past them into the ground. Er...is that normal?

I've never seen that on a car before.

Views of the collective welcome as always

 

[varesecrazy]

Normal since 2003

Its a SLOT...

See my 2004 GUIDE

 

[Myusername]

Er ok. What guide am I looking for?

 

[varesecrazy]

Good question..

Top of the Panda section.. there is a symbol topleft

Spanner and Screwdriver.. thats the GUIDES Link

Weirdly I cannot see the image I used for the slot in my wing though..

I will try and repost it

500 section should have similar images though..( from John? )

 

[koalar]

as @varesecrazy said, normal

the top top hat big washer doesn't do anything either, with the wheels on the ground its the weight of the car the locates the top mount on the strut, Just there to stop the strut falling down too far when being jacked up

shame this question wasn't yesterday, I have just changed a strut

 

[Myusername]

Thank you for the replies.

Next job is to change the front hub to see if it cures the terrible rumbling drone.

I would have tried today but the track rod end ball joint decided to turn along with the nut, and I'm reluctant to have to destroy a perfectly good trackrod end

Why on earth can't they put flats on these things so you hold it with a spanner?

 

[The Panda Nut]

So busy day on the Panda!

Rear shock absorbers - quite easy, and rear knocking completely gone. Result!

Front wishbone - quite straightforward, rear bush indeed split. Sorted!

But...I noticed something strange about the front struts - they don't seem central on the hole in the inner wing, resulting in a gap that allows you to see past them into the ground. Er...is that normal?

I've never seen that on a car before.

Views of the collective welcome as always

yes. Mounts are sort of oval with the hole to one end. The have to be correctly aligned on fitting

 

[varesecrazy]

Track rod ends.. Heat is your friend there.. I used a camping stove once

The nuts are not long.. so a decent penetrant (plusgas) sprayed from either side

You can wind out the track rod and the stuck nut until you have room to spray it all

 

[varesecrazy]

My missing Images and Info..

Since the site redesign 'GUIDES' have changed significantly

GUIDES gives you a complete list.. not model specific

If you want 'Panda' as an example..

Look at top of Panda section..see symbol with crossed spanner and screwdriver

That is Panda Guides

Look at all 3 subsections

'Discussions' may well include any additional information and pics...
As in my slotted wing photos

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

But...I noticed something strange about the front struts - they don't seem central on the hole in the inner wing, resulting in a gap that allows you to see past them into the ground. Er...is that normal?

I've never seen that on a car before.

Views of the collective welcome as always

Is this the "gap" that's worrying you?

If so don't worry. As Koalar says above, the "top hat" washer is really only there to stop the strut dropping out when you jack the car up off the ground. The weight of the car presses the rubber top mount into the wing mounting and that's what locates it. This picture is of the O/S/F, almost new, top mount in my 2012 Panda, with the weight of the vehicle on the ground (i.e. not jacked up) and is exactly how it should look.

Regarding the track rod end. Do I understand that what happened was when you started to undo the nut it jammed up on the thread a bit and the taper broke free of the steering arm so it is just rotating the taper pin? If so then this does happen from time to time and I've found the best way to overcome this is to take a nice long lever and use it to press the taper back into the steering arm thus forcing the taper to "bite" again. Often this is enough to stop the taper pin from rotating - you must keep bearing down on the lever while trying to move the nut - and allow you to retighten the nut, clean up the thread and apply some releasing fluid (Plus Gas, or similar please, not WD) and then, whilst leaning firmly on your lever, so the taper continues to "bite", unwind the nut. My "weapons of choice" are either my big tyre lever or, if I really need to apply some force, a Morris Marina half shaft which I reformed the end off so it can be used as a lever:

The half shaft is so strong I can put a length of scaffold tube over the end of it to really apply force if I need to without worrying about it bending. There's no chance you'd need to do that with a ball joint though. Depending on how the joint is aligned to the vehicle sometimes it's easier to put a jack under the ball joint to force the taper back into it's hole but that often works better with bottom balls. If all that fails then a nut splitter will spread the nut and allow it's removal but you'll need a new nut to reassemble - saves the ball joint though.

 

[Myusername]

Well after asking the internet, the internet bombarded me with replies that all shouted "USE A G CLAMP!"

So I bought one yesterday and I'll try it today.

Watch this space...

 

[09 johno]

I just put the scissors jack under the arm and jack it upwards until the taper is tight, then undo the nut.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well after asking the internet, the internet bombarded me with replies that all shouted "USE A G CLAMP!"

So I bought one yesterday and I'll try it today.

Watch this space...

I've never seen that solution. I'm wondering how you could position the ends of the clamp and still have access to the nut? I think either using a jack or lever to force the taper back into the arm would be much quicker. However I'm always up for learning new solutions so could you post a picture of how you got on with it?

 

[varesecrazy]

This is proving an interesting read..

But am confused ..

Thought you were changing a Track Rod ball joint ( outer)

Now onto the Hub lower ball joint. Presumably

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

This is proving an interesting read..

But am confused ..

Thought you were changing a Track Rod ball joint ( outer)

Now onto the Hub lower ball joint. Presumably

Aye Charlie, I'm enjoying it too. Can't wait to see how that G clamp is going to be deployed? Of course our bottom ball joints are not taper pin type being as how they employ a pinch bolt - which presents it's own challenges - and the track rod end goes in from the top so deploying a jack to force the taper back in is going to be very difficult. Think I'll just stick to my big lever which I've been using for at least 40 years!

 

[Myusername]

I'll take a picture but I don't know how to post them.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'll take a picture but I don't know how to post them.

I work through my laptop - don't even have a smart phone - So I take a picture on my digital camera and upload it to the "pictures" file on the laptop (win 10). Then all you have to do is click on the "attach files" box at the bottom of the posting box which opens to show your computer files. select the picture you want and "open" (bottom right of page) whereupon the picture will appear at the bottom of your posting box (where the "attach files" box is). Make sure your cursor is where you want it in your text and click the "insert" box in the picture and it'll let you choose between a "Thumbnail" (small size) or "Full image". Select which you want and click on it whereupon the picture will appear in the text. You're done! Takes a few minutes to get your head round it but it's so much easier than it was on our old forum setup - Thanks BEN.

 

[varesecrazy]

G.clamp..and a deep socket I suppose (remove the nut would make life easier...)

I was getting confused about the taper..and its location

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

G.clamp..and a deep socket I suppose (remove the nut would make life easier...)

I was getting confused about the taper..and its location

Now you've got me confused too. I'm assuming the problem we are addressing here is what to do about a nut which is seized/semi seized to it's thread and the taper has broken free so the ball joint "pin" is just spinning without the nut undoing? So are you saying to put a deep socket over the nut and then position the G clamp with one pad on the end of the socket and the other on the closed end of the ball joint and, by tightening the G clamp, forcing the taper back into the steering arm? If so then you're going to have to take the G clamp and socket off to gain access to the nut, which, being still seized to it's thread, is just going to break the taper loose again when you try to turn it - the nut that is. To be effective you've got to be able to maintain a force on the taper pin such that it continues to be forced into it's hole. Easily done with a lever or jack if the configuration of the joint allows but I'm toiling to see how you're going to do it with a G clamp - Or am I just being stupid?

 

[koalar]

I am not sure how the g-clamp helps more than a ball joint separator, (wedge or screw type)

there's, lots of ways crack them apart. I normally just use a jack and two hammers.

But if the end will not unscrew. I can pretty much gaurentee heat (blow lamp) will turn a nightmare in to an easy job