Technical Starting issue

[Ferniferous]

The sound of the pump motor is also a good indicator, but recording on a phone probably isn't really good enough. You need to be able to tell if it sounds "wheezy" rather than "crisp".

Is this the whirring sound it makes when i unlock the door with the remote?

 

[irc]

I reverse in and the driveway slopes forward towards the lane but it also slopes sideways, is that's ok?

Yes, should be fine, but you'll need to reverse past the point, leave engine running, handbrake on, put the chocks in place, roll forwards until leaning on them, then turn off as normal.

 

[irc]

Is this the whirring sound it makes when i unlock the door with the remote?

Yes, that's the pump pressurising the system. On Pandas it triggers when opening the drivers door, but 500 could be different.
If I remember correctly it should be about 8 to 12 seconds, but it's been a while.

 

[Ferniferous]

Yes, should be fine, but you'll need to reverse past the point, leave engine running, handbrake on, put the chocks in place, roll forwards until leaning on them, then turn off as normal.

So, no handbrake at the end? And by 'as normal' i assume you mean in gear?

 

[irc]

So, no handbrake at the end? And by 'as normal' i assume you mean in gear?

Put handbrake on anyway, shouldn't make a difference and adds some safety in case anything wierd happens.
Just do what you have always done - if it behaves differently, at least we will be comparing like-for-like.

 

[Ferniferous]

Put handbrake on anyway, shouldn't make a difference and adds some safety in case anything wierd happens.
Just do what you have always done - if it behaves differently, at least we will be comparing like-for-like.

Ok, so what are you expecting to happen here? Just so i know what I'm looking out for.ls it literally whether is starts fine with the bricks in front of the tyres? I've gotten a bit lost

 

[koalar]

When new the pump primes for approximately 5 seconds as the car ages it gets progressively longer, no idea what the upper limit would be, anyone, also remember this is on a new battery

You should get 4 gear changes before the pump primes again

is it an "official" procedure or a get-round?

Official, there quite a few versions of the dualogic fitted to the C510 gearbox I don't know if it applies to them all

If someone could check it still applies to the 500, my e-learn version has no dualogic listed

There's got to be a clue in the cars fine if left in N and the weather's cold, most mechanical things are worse, gas pressures are the only things that alter with temperature, I could think of, and I was purposely avoiding saying it until the hydraulic level had be checked

Low level and no leak might point to an accumulator on the way out

 

[irc]

Ok, so what are you expecting to happen here? Just so i know what I'm looking out for.ls it literally whether is starts fine with the bricks in front of the tyres? I've gotten a bit lost

If it changes to Neutral without having to re-try numerous times when you try to start it, this would suggest the problem isvwith the gearbox holding the weight of the car, rather than the handbrake. It would also mean there's nothing major wrong with your gearbox/actuator, and that you either need to fix your handbrake (cheap) or adjust your parking method (free, but a pain in the a$$). Or you could sell the car with a clear conscience as a fully working one.

 

[irc]

When new the pump primes for approximately 5 seconds as the car ages it gets progressively longer, no idea what the upper limit would be, anyone, also remember this is on a new battery

Never had a new (or even nearly-new) one, but with 70k+ on the clock, Pandas used to run at least 8 seconds from an overnight stop.
I had one with 120k on the clock which I put a new pump motor on, and I'm pretty sure it was still about 8 seconds. It was on original clutch and accumulator, so I guess that could explain it.

 

[Ferniferous]

Yes, that's the pump pressurising the system. On Pandas it triggers when opening the drivers door, but 500 could be different.
If I remember correctly it should be about 8 to 12 seconds, but it's been a while.

Yep, it's a fair while, it's definitely gotten longer over time. I usually wait for it to stop before starting the engine.

 

[Ferniferous]

If it changes to Neutral without having to re-try numerous times when you try to start it, this would suggest the problem isvwith the gearbox holding the weight of the car, rather than the handbrake. It would also mean there's nothing major wrong with your gearbox/actuator, and that you either need to fix your handbrake (cheap) or adjust your parking method (free, but a pain in the a$$). Or you could sell the car with a clear conscience as a fully working one.

All done. I'll report back in the morning.

 

[Ferniferous]

If it changes to Neutral without having to re-try numerous times when you try to start it, this would suggest the problem isvwith the gearbox holding the weight of the car, rather than the handbrake. It would also mean there's nothing major wrong with your gearbox/actuator, and that you either need to fix your handbrake (cheap) or adjust your parking method (free, but a pain in the a$$). Or you could sell the car with a clear conscience as a fully working one.

Morning. So, with it leaning against the bricks, it took about 6 seconds to start, no clicking, just silence. Wish I'd taken a video of the lights on the dash for reference. I started it while the handbrake was still on, though, not sure if that makes a difference.

 

[irc]

Morning. So, with it leaning against the bricks, it took about 6 seconds to start, no clicking, just silence. Wish I'd taken a video of the lights on the dash for reference. I started it while the handbrake was still on, though, not sure if that makes a difference.

Handbrake shouldn't make a difference, and if it's how you normally do it then keep on doing the same, at least for now.
If it was in gear then there should be just one gearchange sound, then silence, and as its a change from in-gear to Neutral I would expect it to be a single clunk rather than a clunk-clunk, so easy to miss.
Video of dash would definitely help... behaviour is different to before but hard to visualise why.
Any chance of repeating with video, tomorrow maybe?

 

[Ferniferous]

Handbrake shouldn't make a difference, and if it's how you normally do it then keep on doing the same, at least for now.
If it was in gear then there should be just one gearchange sound, then silence, and as its a change from in-gear to Neutral I would expect it to be a single clunk rather than a clunk-clunk, so easy to miss.
Video of dash would definitely help... behaviour is different to before but hard to visualise why.
Any chance of repeating with video, tomorrow maybe?

Yep, i was thinking that I'll try again. I don't think I'm going out today, so i can do it throughout the day. I'll pay attention to the noises when i put it into neutral, to start it, and I'll do a video.

 

[koalar]

Handbrake shouldn't make a difference, and if it's how you normally do it then keep on doing the same, at least for now.
If it was in gear then there should be just one gearchange sound, then silence, and as its a change from in-gear to Neutral I would expect it to be a single clunk rather than a clunk-clunk, so easy to miss.
Video of dash would definitely help... behaviour is different to before but hard to visualise why.
Any chance of repeating with video, tomorrow maybe?

Did the same here

When changing gears:
N to In Gear - no noise
In Gear to R - shotgun sound
R to N - shotgun sound
R to In Gear - shotgun soun
In Gear to Neutral- no sound
N to R - shotgun sound

 

[irc]

Yep, I think (hope) that no noise is actually the "click" part of the "click-clunk" shotgun noise, but it's been a couple of years since I had a Dualogic in regular use. There's definitely a gearbox movement going on according to the dash.
Wish I had one here to refresh memory.

 

[Ferniferous]

Did the same here

Oh yea, it looks like it doesn't normally make a sound going from in gear to neutral (normal for my car anyway). I'll pay attention to that this time. Just in case it's different when left standing for a while.

 

[Ferniferous]

Just been out to start the car, while it's still leaning against the bricks and it started straight away. I screwed up the video, wasn't recording I had left it in reverse all day, and as expected, when i put it into neutral to start it, it made no sound.

I'll try again in the morning and make sure i press record this time.

 

[irc]

My current thinking is that your handbrake is letting it roll enough to "lock" the gearbox enough to make the actuator struggle to get Neutral.
I could be wrong, but I think your actuator and gearbox are OK, and it's your rear brakes that need servicing. That would be a result!
Next experiment could be to park it on level ground overnight and see if it behaves.

 

[Ferniferous]

My current thinking is that your handbrake is letting it roll enough to "lock" the gearbox enough to make the actuator struggle to get Neutral.
I could be wrong, but I think your actuator and gearbox are OK, and it's your rear brakes that need servicing. That would be a result!
Next experiment could be to park it on level ground overnight and see if it behaves.

So, it's usually parked on level ground at work for 9 hours, and i have the same starting issue.