Technical Starting issue

[Ferniferous]

Hey,

I've been having issues with my Fiat 500 POP (2010) Semi-automatic, and i was hoping you guys could help, as the mechanics can't.

So, this issue has varied slightly over time but initially, when i turned the key in the ignition, there was complete silence for about 10 secs and then the engine starts. But if i didn't wait those 10 secs and just tried starting the engine again, it started straight away.

For a while i worked out that if i turned the key to the 'MAR' position for a few moments first, it would then start first time. Then that stopped working.

At the moment, i turn the key and i hear nothing except a loud clicking sound, then it starts. Takes about 5 to 10 seconds.

This issue only presents itself when the car has been left standing for about 8 hours, so every day, but the mechanics couldn't recreate the issue, therefore they won't touch it.

Oh, but on a really cold day (UK) it starts straight away.

I did an ECU reset and it was better for 2 days but now its back to clicking. I also replaced the inhibitor relay, which caused half my climate control lights to come on for a day but they have gone back off. And it didn't help with the starting issue.

Also, my remote key isn't unlocking the car easily, despite having changed the battery a couple of times. It's better for about a week and deteriorates quickly.

I've had my key checked at Timpsons and they said the signal coming from it is working.

I've had several checks on the car that all came back good; starter test, grounding test, diode ripple test, battery, and alternator.

I'm not overly knowledgeable about cars, so please keep that in mind, dumb it down lol.

I'd be so greatful for any help

 

[AnthonyH]

Does the immobilizer light go out immediately after turning the key to the Mar position?

(Its the icon with a car and padlock on the dashboard)

At a guess i'd say the key is faulty. Timpsons aren't very good - when i had a problem with my key they told me it was fine! It took me another week to sort out the problem.

 

[Ferniferous]

Does the immobilizer light go out immediately after turning the key to the Mar position?

(Its the icon with a car and padlock on the dashboard)

At a guess i'd say the key is faulty. Timpsons aren't very good - when i had a problem with my key they told me it was fine! It took me another week to sort out the problem.

Hey,

So, I've just been out to check and that icon doesn't come on at all. Is that good or bad?

P.S I did put another new battery in my key last night.

Thanks

 

[AnthonyH]

Hey,

So, I've just been out to check and that icon doesn't come on at all. Is that good or bad?

P.S I did put another new battery in my key last night.

Thanks

It means the key is probably ok.

After you turn the key to the mar position do you hear the fuel pump priming? It's a low humming noise that lasts 4 or 5 seconds.

 

[Ferniferous]

It means the key is probably ok.

After you turn the key to the mar position do you hear the fuel pump priming? It's a low humming noise that lasts 4 or 5 seconds.

Ok, cool

I can hear that noise as soon as the car doors unlock, i was never too sure if that was normal because I'm pretty sure that when i first got the car, it didn't start as soon as i unlocked the doors.

 

[AnthonyH]

Ok, cool

I can hear that noise as soon as the car doors unlock, i was never too sure if that was normal because I'm pretty sure that when i first got the car, it didn't start as soon as i unlocked the doors.

OK, so its not that.

You have a dualogic semi-automatic car...those gearboxes are notoriously unreliable. It could be that, the problem being i don't understand them.

Can someone else chime in?

 

[Ferniferous]

OK, so its not that.

You have a dualogic semi-automatic car...those gearboxes are notoriously unreliable. It could be that, the problem being i don't understand them.

Can someone else chime in?

Yea, I've read a few posts now about their gearboxes. I wish i had read some reviews before buying it....you live and learn.
I just phoned Fiat and it's £300 for 2 hours of fault finding

 

[AnthonyH]

Yea, I've read a few posts now about their gearboxes. I wish i had read some reviews before buying it....you live and learn.
I just phoned Fiat and it's £300 for 2 hours of fault finding

You're probably better off selling this car...I already know you don't want to...i'm just saying. Maybe the dualogic gearbox isn't that bad overall, and all us forum people hear about are the bills, which are very big.

Maybe the problem you have isn't the dualogic.

Anyone else?

 

[Ferniferous]

You're probably better off selling this car...I already know you don't want to...i'm just saying. Maybe the dualogic gearbox isn't that bad, and all us forum people hear about are the bills, which are very big.

Maybe the problem you have isn't the dualogic.

Anyone else?

Because I've had these issues going on 2 years, i am very happy to sell it, buuuut i can't sell it as is. I need as much money from it as possible so i can afford a bew car. That's my dilema.

 

[AnthonyH]

Because I've had these issues going on 2 years, i am very happy to sell it, buuuut i can't sell it as is. I need as much money from it as possible so i can afford a bew car. That's my dilema.

Hmmm, yes i can see the issue.

 

[koalar]

Let's start at the beginning

Turn the ignition on

What lights come on the dash

Try and crank the car which light stays on or go out

 

[A3jeroen]

But only a clicking from the relay and the startermotor not engaging sounds like a problem with the carbattery or the earthcable to the gearbox.

gr J

 

[Ferniferous]

Let's start at the beginning

Turn the ignition on

What lights come on the dash

Try and crank the car which light stays on or go out

When you say turn the ignition on, is that when you turn the key half way?
I do have a video but with me turning the key all the way as if just starting the car as normal, if that helps?

 

[koalar]

When you say turn the ignition on, is that when you turn the key half way?
I do have a video but with me turning the key all the way as if just starting the car as normal, if that helps?

Just need to see what light comes on initially when the car powers up and all the lights come on the dash

The what light go out as the you try and crank the engine, even though it's not working


Mainly interested in the oil and battery

 

[Ferniferous]

Just need to see what light comes on initially when the car powers up and all the lights come on the dash

The what light go out as the you try and crank the engine, even though it's not working


Mainly interested in the oil and battery

Ok, I'll have to check later because i recently went out to check something else and it needs to be standing for at least 8 hours to recreate the issues. So watch this space

 

[koalar]

Ok, cool

I can hear that noise as soon as the car doors unlock, i was never too sure if that was normal because I'm pretty sure that when i first got the car, it didn't start as soon as i unlocked the doors.

That the electric hydraulic pump pressurising the gearbox not the fuel pump


At the moment at the moment I not be too interest in whether the fuel pump primes as it does not stop the car from cranking

 

[koalar]

So, this issue has varied slightly over time but initially, when i turned the key in the ignition, there was complete silence for about 10 secs and then the engine starts. But if i didn't wait those 10 secs and just tried starting the engine again, it started straight away.

Mmm

Could this be the delay if you park it in gear and start the car with the foot on the brake, it takes a couple of seconds before the dialogic finds neutral

Kind of fits with

For a while i worked out that if i turned the key to the 'MAR' position for a few moments first, it would then start first time. Then that stopped working

Is this delay the same if you manually select neutral before cranking the engine

What gear does the display say

Is it too slow to select neutral

Your idea of a video sounds good

Being a dialogic complicates things slightly
It needs the signal back from the gearbox to say it's in neutral before it will energies the inhibitor relay and the car will crank

Immobilizer (CODE) key transponder communication to the body computer and ECU irrelevant to cranking, but the ECU will not run the engine. The car will even crack with the engine computer removed

 

[Ferniferous]

Mmm

Could this be the delay if you park it in gear and start the car with the foot on the brake, it takes a couple of seconds before the dialogic finds neutral

Kind of fits with



Is this delay the same if you manually select neutral before cranking the engine

What gear does the display say

Is it too slow to select neutral

Your idea of a video sounds good

Being a dialogic complicates things slightly
It needs the signal back from the gearbox to say it's in neutral before it will energies the inhibitor relay and the car will crank

Immobilizer (CODE) key transponder communication to the body computer and ECU irrelevant to cranking, but the ECU will not run the engine. The car will even crack with the engine computer removed

Hmmm interesting, i always turn the engine of with it in gear and leave it parked in gear because if i turn the engine off with it in Neutral it beeps at me about 5 times, so thought i was doing something wrong.

I always put it in Neutral and press the brake pedal when starting the engine though.

I'll get that video at around 8pm this evening, it'll have been standing for 8 hours by that point.

 

[irc]

Being a dialogic complicates things slightly
It needs the signal back from the gearbox to say it's in neutral before it will energies the inhibitor relay and the car will crank

OP: Not butting in, please stick with Koalar's diagnostics.

@koalar It also checks status of brake switch - Dodgy brake switch or burnt earth connection to o/s rear light can puzzle it (amongst many other things) without giving obvious symptoms.

 

[AnthonyH]

Being a dialogic complicates things slightly
It needs the signal back from the gearbox to say it's in neutral before it will energies the inhibitor relay and the car will crank

A problem with the dualogic was my intuition without me knowing the right components to mention.