Technical Starting issue

[koalar]

OP: Not butting in, please stick with Koalar's diagnostics.

@koalar It also checks status of brake switch - Dodgy brake switch or burnt earth connection to o/s rear light can puzzle it (amongst many other things) without giving obvious symptoms.

It would be fairly easy for an auto electrician to eliminate the sensors by measuring the control side of the inhibitor relay and seeing if it's commanded

Or temporary bypassing it altogether, which is where I would start, not so easy to advise on a forum from a safety point of view

Have to wait until the OP gets back, and see if there's any hints in the video

Got to be a clue it works fine if the outside temperature is low, but it's not something I remember coming across this way before, and has me scratching my head at the moment

 

[irc]

I bought a breaker Dualogic which "wouldn't start", which was just the brake switch. Unfortunately it had been "fork lifted" the lazy way or I would have driven it home to pull apart. (Not so good when roof is bent and missing a couple of windows.)
Drove onto the trailer just fine though.

The only other Dualogic non-starter I came across was a burned earth connector on the drivers side tail light (which I fixed for a nice old lady in a Tesco car park when she asked me if I had any Jump leads!)
Other than those they have always been things that would affect a manual one just the same (battery, earth lead, starter, ignition switch etc.).

 

[Ferniferous]

Sorry guys, i totally screwed up the video, hand slipped on the key. I'll try again in the morning

 

[koalar]

A problem with the dualogic was my intuition without me knowing the right components to mention.

Not a problem

I was just trying to avoid us going down a wrong rabbit hole of the immoberliser light

It does need much to crank, I have disconnect the ECU when doing a compression test and it still cranks fine

 

[Ferniferous]

OP: Not butting in, please stick with Koalar's diagnostics.

@koalar It also checks status of brake switch - Dodgy brake switch or burnt earth connection to o/s rear light can puzzle it (amongst many other things) without giving obvious symptoms.

Hey. So, I've been trying to get a suitable video but currently, if i turn the key half way to see what comes up on the dash, when i turn the key the rest of the way, it starts fine. I realised this a while back but it did stop working for a while.
So here's a video of me starting the car as normal.

 

[koalar]

Obviously with it starting normally, everything is as it should be

However here's some things to look out for

Here your car has started to crank but the engine hasn't yet fired, as noted by the rev counter starting to move

The engine check light, oil pressure and battery charge are all still lit

If any of these, don't come on, or go out, before the engine starts to turn, it will be a power ground issue

The gear selector is showing N, if it's still showing the last gear selected, the problem more likely to be a sensor issue, or as simple as recalibrate the brake switch (normally the lights will be on permanently or come on intermittently without pressing the pedal)

It's shown N, and the lights on the dash are correct, the brake light are working correctly and both the same brightness

Assuming the correct inhibitor relay was changed

Your down to more complicated measuring of voltages to diagnose what's wrong

But while it's working, we can only guess

 

[Ferniferous]

Obviously with it starting normally, everything is as it should be

However here's some things to look out for

Here your car has started to crank but the engine hasn't yet fired, as noted by the rev counter starting to move

The engine check light, oil pressure and battery charge are all still lit

If any of these, don't come on, or go out, before the engine starts to turn, it will be a power ground issue

The gear selector is showing N, if it's still showing the last gear selected, the problem more likely to be a sensor issue, or as simple as recalibrate the brake switch (normally the lights will be on permanently or come on intermittently without pressing the pedal)

It's shown N, and the lights on the dash are correct, the brake light are working correctly and both the same brightness

Assuming the correct inhibitor relay was changed

Your down to more complicated measuring of voltages to diagnose what's wrong

But while it's working, we can only guess

View attachment 457024

This is all really interesting, thanks.

I forgot to say, to hear the clicking sound which is very loud in the car, you need to turn the volume on your phone or pc right up, my phone mic doesn't pick it up well.

 

[koalar]

Which engine

 

[Ferniferous]

Which engine

What do you mean? Sorry

 

[koalar]

No glow plugs showing and sounds like its petrol

But 2010 could be multiair or a 1.2 8v

 

[Ferniferous]

No glow plugs showing and sounds like its petrol

But 2010 could be multiair or a 1.2 8v

It's a 500 POP 1.2 Dualogic. Petrol.

 

[koalar]

Okay that's good it a standard petrol engine

The clicking is not the test procedure for Multiair system as toggled the actuators

Has it always sounded the same

 

[Ferniferous]

Okay that's good it a standard petrol engine

The clicking is not the test procedure for Multiair system as toggled the actuators

Has it always sounded the same

It never used to make the clicking sound when i first got it. Then gradually it was taking longer and longer to start and then the clicking sound started.

 

[koalar]

Maybe listen by the pedals while turning the ignition on

Is it loudest inside the car or under the bonnet

 

[Ferniferous]

Maybe listen by the pedals while turning the ignition on

Is it loudest inside the car or under the bonnet

Unfortunately, i don't have another person to listen under the bonnet while starting the car but i can certainly listen down by the pedals. If i remember when i leave work, I'll grab someone to ask

But for reference, in the car it is as loud as the indictaror, if not louder.

 

[irc]

Out of interest, does it make the same noises if you leave it in N when stopping?
Very hard to tell from the audio but it looks like repeated attempts to select Neutral, until it succeds, the dash changes, and then it starts.

 

[koalar]

Out of interest, does it make the same noises if you leave it in N when stopping?
Very hard to tell from the audio but it looks like repeated attempts to select Neutral, until it succeds, the dash changes, and then it starts.

Would fit most if not all the symptoms

The noise would be more noticeable under the bonnet next near the battery

 

[Ferniferous]

Out of interest, does it make the same noises if you leave it in N when stopping?
Very hard to tell from the audio but it looks like repeated attempts to select Neutral, until it succeds, the dash changes, and then it starts.

Do you mean when parked? I shall have to try over the next couple of days because i normally leave it in gear. If i turn it off in neutral it beeps at me repeatedly.

 

[koalar]

Do you mean when parked? I shall have to try over the next couple of days because i normally leave it in gear. If i turn it off in neutral it beeps at me repeatedly.

Yes

@irc wants to confirm the noise is the gearbox making repeated attempts to engage neutral when cold

If the car starts fine every times without any clicking when its been left in neutral it narrows the search for the fault considerably

You will to just put up with the beeping temporarily until is been confirmed or eliminate eliminated as the fault

 

[Ferniferous]

Yes

@irc wants to confirm the noise is the gearbox making repeated attempts to engage neutral when cold

If the car starts fine every times without any clicking when its been left in neutral it narrows the search for the fault considerably

You will to just put up with the beeping temporarily until is been confirmed or eliminate eliminated as the fault

Gotcha! Thanks for explaining and I'll get back to you