Technical Starting issue

[irc]

That's pretty strange... the only thing we changed was the chocks.
OK, looking for other possibilities. Couple of questions about how you park.
Do you usually reverse into your parking space at work, if so does the car end up parked in R?
Do you come to a complete stop using the footbrake, then apply the handbrake, release the footbrake and only then turn the engine off? If not, what order do you normally do these operations? Is it the same on flat and sloped ground?



I've possibly got a Panda Dualogic coming in after Christmas for a couple of things, so I will be able to refresh my memory on a few points, and maybe try to recreate the problem if its not sorted by then.

 

[Ferniferous]

That's pretty strange... the only thing we changed was the chocks.
OK, looking for other possibilities. Couple of questions about how you park.
Do you usually reverse into your parking space at work, if so does the car end up parked in R?
Do you come to a complete stop using the footbrake, then apply the handbrake, release the footbrake and only then turn the engine off? If not, what order do you normally do these operations? Is it the same on flat and sloped ground?



I've possibly got a Panda Dualogic coming in after Christmas for a couple of things, so I will be able to refresh my memory on a few points, and maybe try to recreate the problem if its not sorted by then.

I do reverese into my parking space at work, and therefore most of the time park in reverse, however there may be the odd occasion when i move forward a little after.
It's hard to tell what order i do things in, i kind do everything at once. I definitely come to a stop using the foot brake. I feel like i probably turn the engine off at the same time as pulling up the handbrake. I think i do the same whether on the slope or flat.
I shall have to pay more attention to what i do next time.

 

[irc]

It *shouldn't* make a difference, but I have an idea that it might.
I do remember my first Dualogic Panda was a bit fussy about startup and shutdown procedures, and it caused me some problems until I got it worked out. Later ones didn't seem as bad, but that could be because I had changed the way I did something and it had become "natural".
(But its really hard to remember without being able to try it out!)

 

[Ferniferous]

Started straight away today, no sound as i put it into neutral. I'll have to try a couple of difference sequences for turning the car off and see how that goes.

 

[steveras57]

Time to sell id say!

 

[Ferniferous]

Time to sell id say!

As soon as it's fixed, it's going up for sale

 

[Ferniferous]

It *shouldn't* make a difference, but I have an idea that it might.
I do remember my first Dualogic Panda was a bit fussy about startup and shutdown procedures, and it caused me some problems until I got it worked out. Later ones didn't seem as bad, but that could be because I had changed the way I did something and it had become "natural".
(But its really hard to remember without being able to try it out!)

Yesterday afternoon when i parked the car, i reversed in, come to a stop using the brake pedal, handbrake on, engine off. No chocks. Car started fine. However, i did have it in 'Auto' which is unusal for me, should have really left it in manual.

 

[AnthonyH]

As soon as it's fixed, it's going up for sale

I don't think it's getting fixed, sorry!

If you were a mechanic it'd be good to see you pull it apart and we'd help you fix it.

Your best option is to sell this car as it is.

Your second best option is to drive it until it dies.

Your worst option is to spend money on this car.

 

[Zardo]

Yesterday afternoon when i parked the car, i reversed in, come to a stop using the brake pedal, handbrake on, engine off. No chocks. Car started fine. However, i did have it in 'Auto' which is unusal for me, should have really left it in manual.

So this 14 year old, low mileage car starts immediately if the engine was shut down very recently with the gearbox in any gear and it also starts immediately if the gear was left in neutral, even when the car was not used for 8+ hours. But there is a latency period upon start if it was not in neutral and it was left standing for 8+ hours.

I wonder what happens if it is left in neutral, left unused over night, the engine starts and immediately after engine start you try to put in the 1st gear. Is there a latency as compared to stopping the engine in neutral, turning it back on and then immediately selecting first gear?

Maybe hydraulic liquid accumulates over night in some space where there shouldn’t be any, and when the pistons move first thing in the morning this liquid forms an obstacle and needs to be displaced first? Maybe some seal is worn? Could that be a thing?

 

[koalar]

The thread started as starting issue

Thanks to @Ferniferous video and @irc idea to leave it neutral, we have confirmed it's a dialogic or associated problem

It still seems to me the quickest way forwards is to
check the level

It's a sealed system

Say for example it's 150ml below minimum, we would know it's gone somewhere and then we make a decision

If it's correct, we can move forwards in a different direction,

 

[Ferniferous]

The thread started as starting issue

Thanks to @Ferniferous video and @irc idea to leave it neutral, we have confirmed it's a dialogic or associated problem

It still seems to me the quickest way forwards is to
check the level

It's a sealed system

Say for example it's 150ml below minimum, we would know it's gone somewhere and then we make a decision

If it's correct, we can move forwards in a different direction,

Well, I've actually found a Fiat specialist (although not actual Fiat) who can check the gearbox oil level and check over the gearbox itself, but if I'm honest, I'm starting to think along the same lines as @irc and that it's something as simple as a fussy dualogic gearbox where the car needs to be switched off in a certain order. But the next few days will confirm this. So, by the time the garages are open again, I'll know whether it's worth booking it in.

 

[Ferniferous]

The thread started as starting issue

Thanks to @Ferniferous video and @irc idea to leave it neutral, we have confirmed it's a dialogic or associated problem

It still seems to me the quickest way forwards is to
check the level

It's a sealed system

Say for example it's 150ml below minimum, we would know it's gone somewhere and then we make a decision

If it's correct, we can move forwards in a different direction,

Hey Guys,
@koalar @irc
So, the car went to a mechanic that specialises in Fiats today, and the gearbox does have a leak. It's going in on the 23rd, he thinks it's probably just a seal.
Annoyingly, he showed me that one of my wishbones is also broken, and it'll fail it's MOT, so that's another £360
Thanks for all your help.
@AnthonyH looks like it is getting fixed after all

 

[koalar]

Annoyingly, he showed me that one of my wishbones is also broken, and it'll fail it's MOT, so that's another £360

Sounds expensive for 5 minutes work

Never seen a broken wishbone

I take we are talking about the track control arm

Rubber bushes do fail frequently though

 

[Ferniferous]

Sounds expensive for 5 minutes work

Never seen a broken wishbone

I take we are talking about the track control arm

Rubber bushes do fail frequently though

Which bit should take 5 minuets?

He said the side of the gearbox where the leak is, is tricky to get too.

As for the wishbone, he did mention the bush. The arm is resting on the metal when there should be a gap. He said the whole front of the car needs to be removed. I live up a very bump driveway in the country and drive over train tracks every day for work, and then there's the rubbish loads...so I'm not surprised.

 

[koalar]

Yep bushes go every few years


Bit more complicated on the 500 as there a support bar in the way which needs 9 bolts in the bumper taking of to get some room

Driver side the washer bottle is also in the way

But on a ramp
With pneumatic tools
10 minutes and £30 part


I forgot it's not a panda there 5 minutes tops

 

[Ferniferous]

Yep bushes go every few years


Bit more complicated on the 500 as there a support bar in the way which needs 9 bolts in the bumper taking of to get some room

Driver side the washer bottle is also in the way

But on a ramp
With pneumatic tools
10 minutes and £30 part


I forgot it's not a panda there 5 minutes tops

Oh right, seems like i am being over charged then, but no one else will touch it so, i haven't got much choice.

 

[AnthonyH]

Hey Guys,
@koalar @irc
So, the car went to a mechanic that specialises in Fiats today, and the gearbox does have a leak. It's going in on the 23rd, he thinks it's probably just a seal.
Annoyingly, he showed me that one of my wishbones is also broken, and it'll fail it's MOT, so that's another £360
Thanks for all your help.
@AnthonyH looks like it is getting fixed after all

The pull tongue made me laugh lol.

It doesn't sound like you've been given a price for the gearbox problem?

And they're going to charge £360 for a wishbone?

Sounds like you're being set up for a £1000 bill...

 

[Ferniferous]

The pull tongue made me laugh lol.

It doesn't sound like you've been given a price for the gearbox problem?

And they're going to charge £360 for a wishbone?

Sounds like you're being set up for a £1000 bill...

Yea, does seem that way. The display is on it's way out as well becuase now and again when i indicated right, the engine and abs light flash as soon as the gearbox is fixed, I'll put it up for sale.

The gearbox is gonna cost about £200 depending on whether he can find a suitable seal. Unfortunately they only come in kits for that car and it would be another £190, but hopefully he has one that he can use.

 

[Ferniferous]

The pull tongue made me laugh lol.

It doesn't sound like you've been given a price for the gearbox problem?

And they're going to charge £360 for a wishbone?

Sounds like you're being set up for a £1000 bill...

Glad i made you laugh

 

[AnthonyH]

Yea, does seem that way. The display is on it's way out as well becuase now and again when i indicated right, the engine and abs light flash as soon as the gearbox is fixed, I'll put it up for sale.

The gearbox is gonna cost about £200 depending on whether he can find a suitable seal. Unfortunately they only come in kits for that car and it would be another £190, but hopefully he has one that he can use.

There are occasionally horror stories on here.

For example the garage pull apart the gearbox and then say its going to cost £2000. The poor person then goes "oh ****" i can't afford that, give the car back, so they say "OK, but we're not putting the gearbox back in unless you pay us £1500 for our labour".

To prevent this don't let them take the gearbox apart without a lot of thought, and probably post back here if they say anything along these lines.