Shocks or springs?

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Shocks or springs?

If you could change shocks or springs, but not both, which would you choose?

  • Front shocks

  • Front springs

  • Rear shocks

  • Rear springs


Results are only viewable after voting.
For a long time I used to buy furniture at auction to resell, so a car auction room is a familiar place to me despite being a novice mechanic. There's always a bit of a buzz while bidding, which is nice! I'm expecting to pay £400-600 for my next GP and the fees on that will be £230-280. This will get me one with mileage around 80 or 90k and a 2008-2010 plate. Most of the GPs i've bid on in the past have been part exchange from dealers and relatively lower mileage than i can usually see for sale privately.
The problem I find nowadays is that where in the past you took the day off and carefully inspected what you were all bidding on and against who, now you are bidding against someone in an armchair on his phone who cannot see the true condition and consequently jacks the price up unrealistically.
This is great for the auction company who make higher profits with less need of staff, but I can't help wondering what some of these new bidders think of their purchases on collection. Especially when unlike their eBay purchases, does not have a delivery option and the true meaning of " Caveat emptor" becomes apparent.;)
 
The problem I find nowadays is that where in the past you took the day off and carefully inspected what you were all bidding on and against who, now you are bidding against someone in an armchair on his phone who cannot see the true condition and consequently jacks the price up unrealistically.
This is great for the auction company who make higher profits with less need of staff, but I can't help wondering what some of these new bidders think of their purchases on collection. Especially when unlike their eBay purchases, does not have a delivery option and the true meaning of " Caveat emptor" becomes apparent.;)
I'd never buy any used car without comprehensively crawling all over it. It's what I find incredible - "impossible to believe" is the dictionary definition of this word - about these on line sellers and/or ship to you and/or garage dealerships who'll bring the car to you from another branch as long as you commit to buy before they transport it.

By the way, inappropriate and overuse of the word "incredible" by politicians/civil servants/people in the public eye? one of my current pet hates!
 
I always liked the older Vauxhalls of my youth six cylinder PA Crestas on crossply tyres were great fun.
Agreed. Always fancied a Ventora, but I think I've mentioned that before. Regarding the Astra the only "expensive" thing that really went wrong with them was the camshaft/lifters - you used to often hear them ticking and clacking their way past you. Mind you the Ford Pinto engine had just the same problem with it's cam and followers, although they were solid rocker arms compared to the Vauxhall hydraulic lifters so you could reprofile the Ford arms on a grinder and get a bit more mileage out of them. All a bit pointless unless you renewed the cam though and if you were going to do that you might as well fit new rockers too - you could buy them as a kit. I remember seeing an advert from one of the cam specialists which replaced the standard arms with roller type arms which seemed a good idea to me, never tried one though.
 
Agreed. Always fancied a Ventora, but I think I've mentioned that before. Regarding the Astra the only "expensive" thing that really went wrong with them was the camshaft/lifters - you used to often hear them ticking and clacking their way past you. Mind you the Ford Pinto engine had just the same problem with it's cam and followers, although they were solid rocker arms compared to the Vauxhall hydraulic lifters so you could reprofile the Ford arms on a grinder and get a bit more mileage out of them. All a bit pointless unless you renewed the cam though and if you were going to do that you might as well fit new rockers too - you could buy them as a kit. I remember seeing an advert from one of the cam specialists which replaced the standard arms with roller type arms which seemed a good idea to me, never tried one though.
We had a customer with a 3.3 Ventora estate, quick for it's day the owners wife managed to turn a horse box over at high speed in that.
Fitted a few cam shaft , rockers and oil rail kits on Pintos in the past, good thing with those is when cam belt broke it was non interference.:)
 
On the original subject of the shocks and springs. and thinking too about "a crashy ride"

As the springs are most easily assessed I'd be looking at them first. So, first off, when you're out and about, look at a number of similar cars in the street. look at the tyre clearance with regard to the top of the wheel arches front and rear. If the car is parked at the curbside you might risk sticking your fingers in between the tyre and top of the wheel arch as a rough measurement of what the gap is. - be prepared to explain yourself if challenged. However, I've done this in the past and never been challenged. Once you've observed a number of vehicles you should have a good idea of what the typical ride height is for your vehicle so now, park your car on level ground and do the same check on yours. Springs do tend to settle. (our Becky - 2010 Panda - had this problem with her front springs when I bought her. Many of the 169 models I see are a bit down at the front. keep your eyes open when you see one and you'll see what I mean) However it's worth knowing that some manufacturer's models ride a little higher at the rear than others)

Here's a picture of Becky after the new front springs were fitted, see how the wheel arch clearances are pretty much identical front and rear.

P1100598.JPG


Keep an eye out in the street and you'll see many which are definitely down at the front. If it's down then the springs have settled. If just by a little then I'd not be worrying, however if very noticeable then, for this reason alone, I'd be replacing them.

If it passes the "sagging" test then a closer examination of condition is needed. Is the spring pitted with rust - this causes stress concentrations which make the spring much more likely to snap on something like speed bumps and potholes etc. Lastly check to ends of the spring very carefully. every now and then you may find a spring where only a small piece of the end of a coil has snapped off. this may not cause any great difference in ride height so is difficult to see by just checking wheel arch clearances - you need to jack it up and have a good look.

So, if the ride height looks acceptable and the springs are not heavily rusted or otherwise damaged, I'd be happy to continue with them. - inspect for rust very carefully as springs can look good on a casual inspection but have just one small area heavily rusted - perhaps where a stone etc has damaged the protective paint coating and allowed a very small area to become heavily pitted.

Shock absorbers seem to fail frequently these days, probably due to people going too fast over road calming humps or potholes? The "Fast Fit" type stores could probably exist on tyre and shockers alone? By the way, NEVER simply agree to having new shocks fitted at one of these places without getting a second opinion from a trusted source, by which I mean from a friend who is knowledgeable about cars or a trust independent workshop. I've worked in these places and upselling shock absorbers is a well known money maker!

They tend to fail in two ways. Most commonly they'll blow out the top, damper shaft, seal. This is usually easy to see because there will be oil dribbling down the outside of the shocker. Dare I suggest that an oilcan squirted in the right place can give the same symptom? so beware. Also they may fail internally and just not be "resistive" any more - hence the Bounce test Mike was talking about above. Worn shocks can be very dangerous because they let the tyre/wheel "patter" on the road instead of maintaining good contact and this can, in an extreme situation, cause very serious handling problems. So, if there's oil visible or the suspension is overly "bouncy" new shocks are needed.

Less common are problems like bent damper rods, protective covers breaking loose and clattering, and worn rubber bushings.

Now how about the "crashy" ride? Assuming your check of springs and shocks hasn't turned up anything obvious, rubber bushings are an obvious target for attention. suspension arm bushes - on the Panda the rear bush on the track control (lower suspension) arm are wellknown to break up. Anti roll bar bushes can make a hell of a racket when play develops in them as can drop links (another common thing with the Panda). Top suspension mounts are always worth a good look and also worth checking out for worn top mount bearings.

Regarding top mount rubbers. Open the bonnet and check that they both look the same, it's not uncommon for one to fail before the other and you'll see it immediately because the damper rod will be sticking up slightly more than the better one. If looking Ok, now jack up the front until the wheels are just off the ground and place a wee heap - two or three will do - of "glossy" magazines under each wheel. Now let the car back down onto them. The magazines are "slippy" so let you turn the steering wheel without the tyres trying to resist by gripping the road. Now turn the steering lock to lock and listen for "graunch" noises. All quite, probably Ok. Graunchy noises? probably a top mount bearing corroded (might be both so get a pal/wife/friendly passing dog? to turn the steering while you stick your head under the bonnet and locate the noise. By the way, don't worry if you notice that the top mounts drop out of their seatings slightly when you jack the front wheels off the ground. They rely on the weight of the car being on them to push them fully home and will drop slightly when the car is jacked up.

Oh dear, another of my lengthy tomes? anywho, hope it helped someone and can anyone think of something I've missed? I've not talked about ball joints/trackrod ends because they usually cause a knock but not so much a "crashy" ride.
 
By the way, inappropriate and overuse of the word "incredible" by politicians/civil servants/people in the public eye? one of my current pet hates!
That and "We are going to turbo charge or supercharge the economy", I doubt if many of them know the difference or even what it means, as only read off a "tele prompter" screen.:mad:
 
The problem I find nowadays is that where in the past you took the day off and carefully inspected what you were all bidding on and against who, now you are bidding against someone in an armchair on his phone who cannot see the true condition and consequently jacks the price up unrealistically.

On ebay there are fake bidders who bid up their own products anonymously. The car auction I use allows both online and in person bidding, so certainly the dealers would do the same in certain circumstances. At the price i'm buying £400-600 then there's little point anybody doing that because possibly you'd end up with your own car back and £200+ fees to boot!

This is great for the auction company who make higher profits with less need of staff, but I can't help wondering what some of these new bidders think of their purchases on collection. Especially when unlike their eBay purchases, does not have a delivery option and the true meaning of " Caveat emptor" becomes apparent.;)

Ah yes, this is a whole kettle of new fish :)
 
On ebay there are fake bidders who bid up their own products anonymously. The car auction I use allows both online and in person bidding, so certainly the dealers would do the same in certain circumstances. At the price i'm buying £400-600 then there's little point anybody doing that because possibly you'd end up with your own car back and £200+ fees to boot!



Ah yes, this is a whole kettle of new fish :)
When you read the auctioneers small print it is actually OK for them to "run up" the bidding on behalf of the seller and of course to benefit their commission fees. It was certainly easier to see in person when they were "bouncing bids off the walls" unlike today when a vehicle that was "sold" reappears on the next auction day.:)
 
When you read the auctioneers small print it is actually OK for them to "run up" the bidding on behalf of the seller and of course to benefit their commission fees. It was certainly easier to see in person when they were "bouncing bids off the walls" unlike today when a vehicle that was "sold" reappears on the next auction day.:)
I'd forgotten that bit! lol. They will also sell cars provisionally, i.e. tell you later that your winning bid wasn't enough. Thats not happened to me as of yet thankfully.
 
I'd forgotten that bit! lol. They will also sell cars provisionally, i.e. tell you later that your winning bid wasn't enough. Thats not happened to me as of yet thankfully.
Usually if you stand your ground within reason, you will get the provisional ones as the seller tends to prefer the money today, not maybe at next auction.;)
 
On the original subject of the shocks and springs. and thinking too about "a crashy ride"

As the springs are most easily assessed I'd be looking at them first. So, first off, when you're out and about, look at a number of similar cars in the street. look at the tyre clearance with regard to the top of the wheel arches front and rear. If the car is parked at the curbside you might risk sticking your fingers in between the tyre and top of the wheel arch as a rough measurement of what the gap is. - be prepared to explain yourself if challenged. However, I've done this in the past and never been challenged. Once you've observed a number of vehicles you should have a good idea of what the typical ride height is for your vehicle so now, park your car on level ground and do the same check on yours. Springs do tend to settle. (our Becky - 2010 Panda - had this problem with her front springs when I bought her. Many of the 169 models I see are a bit down at the front. keep your eyes open when you see one and you'll see what I mean) However it's worth knowing that some manufacturer's models ride a little higher at the rear than others)

Here's a picture of Becky after the new front springs were fitted, see how the wheel arch clearances are pretty much identical front and rear.

View attachment 438276

That's an excellent test, i'd never have thought about that. And I'm going to be on the lookout for that.

I'm trying not to name my cars something too personal, if I do that then I might get too attached to the car and spend too much time or money on it, when I should sell it. I like the name Becky though! My cars are rather boringly named after the first two letters of their numberplate, so I have DG, DV and ML.

Shock absorbers seem to fail frequently these days, probably due to people going too fast over road calming humps or potholes? The "Fast Fit" type stores could probably exist on tyre and shockers alone? By the way, NEVER simply agree to having new shocks fitted at one of these places without getting a second opinion from a trusted source, by which I mean from a friend who is knowledgeable about cars or a trust independent workshop. I've worked in these places and upselling shock absorbers is a well known money maker!

They tend to fail in two ways. Most commonly they'll blow out the top, damper shaft, seal. This is usually easy to see because there will be oil dribbling down the outside of the shocker. Dare I suggest that an oilcan squirted in the right place can give the same symptom? so beware. Also they may fail internally and just not be "resistive" any more - hence the Bounce test Mike was talking about above. Worn shocks can be very dangerous because they let the tyre/wheel "patter" on the road instead of maintaining good contact and this can, in an extreme situation, cause very serious handling problems. So, if there's oil visible or the suspension is overly "bouncy" new shocks are needed.

I think speed bumps have proliferated, they were non-existent when I was growing up. Of course they do work to slow traffic down, but it comes at a cost for people like me who don't speed, road bumps or not. They are causing a lot of shock problems.

I've been watching out on the roads lately for people with bouncy suspension, it is hard to see how these people could fail to notice them driving a trampoline lol

Less common are problems like bent damper rods, protective covers breaking loose and clattering, and worn rubber bushings.

Now how about the "crashy" ride? Assuming your check of springs and shocks hasn't turned up anything obvious, rubber bushings are an obvious target for attention. suspension arm bushes - on the Panda the rear bush on the track control (lower suspension) arm are wellknown to break up. Anti roll bar bushes can make a hell of a racket when play develops in them as can drop links (another common thing with the Panda). Top suspension mounts are always worth a good look and also worth checking out for worn top mount bearings.

Regarding top mount rubbers. Open the bonnet and check that they both look the same, it's not uncommon for one to fail before the other and you'll see it immediately because the damper rod will be sticking up slightly more than the better one. If looking Ok, now jack up the front until the wheels are just off the ground and place a wee heap - two or three will do - of "glossy" magazines under each wheel. Now let the car back down onto them. The magazines are "slippy" so let you turn the steering wheel without the tyres trying to resist by gripping the road. Now turn the steering lock to lock and listen for "graunch" noises. All quite, probably Ok. Graunchy noises? probably a top mount bearing corroded (might be both so get a pal/wife/friendly passing dog? to turn the steering while you stick your head under the bonnet and locate the noise. By the way, don't worry if you notice that the top mounts drop out of their seatings slightly when you jack the front wheels off the ground. They rely on the weight of the car being on them to push them fully home and will drop slightly when the car is jacked up.

Oh dear, another of my lengthy tomes? anywho, hope it helped someone and can anyone think of something I've missed? I've not talked about ball joints/trackrod ends because they usually cause a knock but not so much a "crashy" ride.

Its all good stuff, i'm looking to learn and your post is insightful! I do need to learn more about the bushings, but i'm not currently knowledgeable enough about them to say whether mine or good or bad.

I watch other peoples Grande Puntos for problems, and when with missus we play the GP game, it basically involves waiting until we come across another Grande Punto and guessing the cars mileage from its condition. I've been spot on for the last two cars, the last one we parked next to at ASDA, i guessed 150,000 miles and it had done 145,000. The one before we passed on the motorway, it was a 2010 car but gleamed and had spent most of its time in a garage, so I guessed 50,000 miles and it had done 45,000. My next game will be to look for saggy suspension :)
 
I bought two rear shocks today, they are going to arrive tomorrow. I bought them off ebay at £30 for the pair, I don't know why I bought so cheap?!

I'd forgotten I shouldn't go this cheap and now I'm somewhat expecting something to be wrong with either or both of them.

There's no rush to get this job done so they can go back if I'm not happy with them.
 
I bought two rear shocks today, they are going to arrive tomorrow. I bought them off ebay at £30 for the pair, I don't know why I bought so cheap?!

I'd forgotten I shouldn't go this cheap and now I'm somewhat expecting something to be wrong with either or both of them.

There's no rush to get this job done so they can go back if I'm not happy with them.
Do you know the brand name?
 
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lots of fake crap on eBay, I’d be careful buying new parts, and only buy from reputable sellers. Lots of big companies now have eBay accounts I buy a lot of genuine VW stuff on their but mechanical parts you need to be careful. I bought a rear brake callipers for my Punto sporting but it was rubbish and the handbrake wouldn’t work at all causing it to fail the MOT (on a brand new calliper) it did initially work but something clearly broke on it within days of it being fitted
 
lots of fake crap on eBay, I’d be careful buying new parts, and only buy from reputable sellers. Lots of big companies now have eBay accounts I buy a lot of genuine VW stuff on their but mechanical parts you need to be careful. I bought a rear brake callipers for my Punto sporting but it was rubbish and the handbrake wouldn’t work at all causing it to fail the MOT (on a brand new calliper) it did initially work but something clearly broke on it within days of it being fitted
I'll be careful to check them, and give them a fair chance, but I've also got no qualms about returning these because I've low balled the price quite a lot.

I have used the ebay seller "bahuha" before and not had issue with them. Guess I'll found out tomorrow. Or maybe in a few weeks if I fit them and they decide to fail later...
 
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I've ordered the ones below, there's no brand name I can see. So pot luck :)

Just been cruising this website and in the description further down the page it lists the brand as BaHuHa. ???!!! Don't very much like the sound of that. However I bought front struts for the Panda from S4p which were a make I'd never heard of before and they've been very good. I hope you find these are Ok. Here is a picture of the stuff I bought to overhaul Becky's front suspension:

P1080575.JPG


Oh, and there you can see the shockers were "Topline" 2019 that was and they're still going absolutely fine without any sign of leaks etc.
 
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