Technical Scratching clutch....

[puntodad19]

hi anthony, if you clean down the area around the g/box selector shaft and gaiter, and below, and the inner drive shaft joint area where it goes into the gearbox, and allow to dry, and check the gearbox shaft area every day, to see if g/box seal is leaking......

clutch noise, did your push back the slave cylinder rod and piston and hear any difference in clutch with drawl bearing ??

I assume the the slave cylinder piston and rod are not sticking/sticky causing clutch with drawl bearing continual contact with pressure plate fingers ??

You know that for example, sitting at traffic lights etc. in gear with your foot on the clutch is not that healthy for the clutch mech or the crank, and, starting engine in gear is similar if not worse.......

stop start on lads car, he disables it......wishes it was disabled all the time......

ps some drives rest their foot on the clutch pedal, which is not good......

 

[AnthonyH]

Details like that make the difference between lame/hack and the real mechanic. Dexterity. You develop "the feel" for certain mechanisms.
The "C" clip must be oriented proper way, "clocked", then you must select the right tool (not just any chisel, screwdriver) and make an "impact" motion.
Try to turn the axle a bit (30-45 degrees) and try again to disengage it. If it's still stubborn, turn more and so on. It should finally pop out.
Look at the Guide again. How many tools it required to pop the axles (5-6 attempts and only one style/size of the big screwdriver worked).

Watch out during installation too. C-clip can be damaged if not clocked optimally.

A dab of thick grease will help too (to center it).

A few more tricks like this and suddenly you have no problems during car's service. Everything can be removed and installed back without damage.

I'm studying this at the moment. I need to determine the correct technique, and buy/find the right tool. Skill makes this look easy, but of course it is not easy until the skill is learnt.

 

[AnthonyH]

hi anthony, if you clean down the area around the g/box selector shaft and gaiter, and below, and the inner drive shaft joint area where it goes into the gearbox, and allow to dry, and check the gearbox shaft area every day, to see if g/box seal is leaking......

clutch noise, did your push back the slave cylinder rod and piston and hear any difference in clutch with drawl bearing ??

I assume the the slave cylinder piston and rod are not sticking/sticky causing clutch with drawl bearing continual contact with pressure plate fingers ??

You know that for example, sitting at traffic lights etc. in gear with your foot on the clutch is not that healthy for the clutch mech or the crank, and, starting engine in gear is similar if not worse.......

stop start on lads car, he disables it......wishes it was disabled all the time......

ps some drives rest their foot on the clutch pedal, which is not good......

When the axle is off i will check the gear shift selector more closely, when i had a look today it looked dryish. The slave cyclinder appeared to be working correctly when i checked. I don't ride the clutch, much or at all, i generally rest my left foot.

 

[puntodad19]

By axle you mean drive shaft, now out of the gear box, and wheel hub, or did you take the strut/hub with drive shaft outer end in situe, off.....away from the car.....

Many ways to skin a cat.....

Remember, if the outer drive shaft cv joint is out of the hub, absolutely NO WEIGHT of car to be experienced by the hub, and no movement of vehicle via that wheel/hub. The cv joint "shaft" and nut effectively keep the wheel bearing together.
If car moved via the road wheels without the cv joint shaft in place, the wheel bearing may/WILL COLLAPSE.........

You could use a knacker old cv joint to clamp the wheel beearing together, or make a dummy cv joint "shaft " and nut. As long as the wheel bearing is clamped together......

Large diameter threaded studding, nuts and washers are available......I made two dummy cv joint shafts for a pug 306 that needed to be moved when engine/gearbox was out getting some tlc.......

You have been warned.

 

[AnthonyH]

I disconnected the control arm, as per the video above. The driveshaft will remain attached to the hub.

The car won't be moved while i'm working on it. Its in a static place on the driveway which isn't used for anything, so there'll be no need to ever move it. I can well imagine moving a car without the control arms attached would be pretty bad news.

I bought a new prise bar and flat head chisel so i have some new tools, and the better technique mentioned above to try. I'll have another go on Saturday.

 

[AnthonyH]

I disconnected the control arm, as per the video above. The driveshaft will remain attached to the hub.

The car won't be moved while i'm working on it. Its in a static place on the driveway which isn't used for anything, so there'll be no need to ever move it. I can well imagine moving a car without the control arms attached would be pretty bad news.

I bought a new prise bar and flat head chisel so i have some new tools, and the better technique mentioned above to try. I'll have another go on Saturday.

I've not had any luck getting the driveshaft out of the gearbox. I tried my new prise bar and cold chisel - but its not doing.

Do you get driveshafts out of the gearbox with the other end attached to the hub? or do you take the driveshaft out of the hub?

 

[rmjbn1]

I left mine attached at the hub.
Have you tried turning the driveshaft a little?
A smart tap is the way, don't try and lever/prise

 

[AnthonyH]

I left mine attached at the hub.
Have you tried turning the driveshaft a little?
A smart tap is the way, don't try and lever/prise

I tried turning the driveshaft a little. Does it need to be in an exact position? What is the purpose of the turning?

I've mostly tried prising, and only a little of the smart tapping. I'll try the tapping again.

 

[puntodad19]

Many ways to skin a cat....

I would remove obstacles to doing the job as much as possible.

Remove caliper from the caliper holder and hang up out of the way along with the hose as free as possible ( removed from clips and not strained. No need to disconnect hose hydraulically. ) Along with abs a pad wear wires etc.

Remove track rod end from hub.

Remove bottom ball joint pinch/retaining bolt and disconnect ball joint pin from hub.

If yours has anti roll bar, you may have to disconnect that as well.

You could remove the two strut to hub bolts, separate hub from strut, and strut top nut ( wiper arms off, plastic scuttle cover off, top nut off, remove strut.....clean out scuttle opportunity ) removed to remove the strut, leaving a disconnected hub....only drive shaft to remove from gearbox

An assistant is always handy, an extra pair of hands to "hold this please so I can ......" Or *push down on this so I can...." etc...

Blocks of wood, bricks and such like are handy to *rest* stuff on so nothing gets strained, including your or your assistants arm. Holding a relatively heavy hub unit up for half and hour can be hard work etc...suitable long levers are also handy.....

You could remove drive shaft from hub but stuff will still get in the way particularly doing this stuff by your self.

You have seen suggestion/tip about circlip "gap" and shaft rotation ?

I like to have fasteners in my hand that may prove problematic and ruined during removal.

As you know, stuff corrodes, seizes in place.

Leaving the shaft in the hub means possible wheel bearing issues avoided apart from problems they may already have.

If you have a fiat parts supplier a near bus ride away who has excellent stock levels, hurrah !

You get away with just seperating the wishbone and hub via pinch bolt removal...


I assume the picture shows state of play at the moment....

Over...



.

 

[puntodad19]

That square section circlip holds the inner drive joint in the gearbox.

It needs to be compressed, close in, so it can be released along with the drive joint.

View the video, see the circlip when it's removed...

New circlip for refitting has been suggested...the clip will need to be compressed when refitting the joint/shaft, via tapered *lead ins*....

Have you got a new circlip...
?

Be prepared....the dealer has access to new parts needed ...

 

[AnthonyH]

Many ways to skin a cat....

I would remove obstacles to doing the job as much as possible.

Remove caliper from the caliper holder and hang up out of the way along with the hose as free as possible ( removed from clips and not strained. No need to disconnect hose hydraulically. ) Along with abs a pad wear wires etc.

Remove track rod end from hub.

Remove bottom ball joint pinch/retaining bolt and disconnect ball joint pin from hub.

If yours has anti roll bar, you may have to disconnect that as well.

You could remove the two strut to hub bolts, separate hub from strut, and strut top nut ( wiper arms off, plastic scuttle cover off, top nut off, remove strut.....clean out scuttle opportunity ) removed to remove the strut, leaving a disconnected hub....only drive shaft to remove from gearbox

An assistant is always handy, an extra pair of hands to "hold this please so I can ......" Or *push down on this so I can...." etc...

Blocks of wood, bricks and such like are handy to *rest* stuff on so nothing gets strained, including your or your assistants arm. Holding a relatively heavy hub unit up for half and hour can be hard work etc...suitable long levers are also handy.....

You could remove drive shaft from hub but stuff will still get in the way particularly doing this stuff by your self.

You have seen suggestion/tip about circlip "gap" and shaft rotation ?

I like to have fasteners in my hand that may prove problematic and ruined during removal.

As you know, stuff corrodes, seizes in place.

Leaving the shaft in the hub means possible wheel bearing issues avoided apart from problems they may already have.

If you have a fiat parts supplier a near bus ride away who has excellent stock levels, hurrah !

You get away with just seperating the wishbone and hub via pinch bolt removal...


I assume the picture shows state of play at the moment....

Over...



.

I'm going to give firmer taps in the hope that this gets it free. I bought a cold chisel and sanded off the really sharp edge so that is good to go.

I can imagine I'll have to remove more parts, it does seem like the driveshaft is angled downwards, quite a lot, and this is preventing me from tugging upwards to any extent.

It seems you're saying rest the hub on some bricks and get it off the downward angle? That does seem a good idea!

 

[AnthonyH]

That square section circlip holds the inner drive joint in the gearbox.

It needs to be compressed, close in, so it can be released along with the drive joint.

View the video, see the circlip when it's removed...

New circlip for refitting has been suggested...the clip will need to be compressed when refitting the joint/shaft, via tapered *lead ins*....

Have you got a new circlip...
?

Be prepared....the dealer has access to new parts needed ...

I'll watch the video again and try to spot the circlip position as the driveshaft is released. I'm guessing its important.

I don't have a replacement circlip at this time, but i can probably get one off ebay if needed.

(The picture does show the car as it currentlly stands).

 

[puntodad19]

What at this time is holding the hub and shaft in place ?

If suspension is still playing it's part in keeping the hub and shaft in place, you are fighting the situation.

If the bottom ball joint is disconnected from the hub, the hub and strut can be *pulled outward* somewhat, as much as the rest of the still connected stuff, like brake hose and wires and track rod etc. will allow.....

Remove/disconnect stuff that is hindering you....

See grand pinto's picture of levers and pry points....

A cold chisel sounds as if your gunna break stuff....

Do you have an assistant ?

 

[AnthonyH]

What at this time is holding the hub and shaft in place ?

If suspension is still playing it's part in keeping the hub and shaft in place, you are fighting the situation.

If the bottom ball joint is disconnected from the hub, the hub and strut can be *pulled outward* somewhat, as much as the rest of the still connected stuff, like brake hose and wires and track rod etc. will allow.....

I've removed the bottom ball joint so the hub and strut can move around a little.

Remove/disconnect stuff that is hindering you....

See grand pinto's picture of levers and pry points....

A cold chisel sounds as if your gunna break stuff....

Do you have an assistant ?

I ground the chisel down, so it won't chew through the driveshaft. I don't have an assistant, so if the tapping doesn't work the next thing to try is getting the hub/driveshaft up on bricks.

 

[puntodad19]

twascasting I was thinking of....

Bricks, wood, milk crate, banana box, anything suitable to keep the shaft etc. In line, and so it doesn't crash to the floor when the drive joint pops out.

Remember to catch the oil in s clean container if not already drained.

As to the clutch screach, at 100k miles plus, is the gearbox coming off to further investigate this ?

Can you see the clutch withdrawal bearing and pressure plate fingers via clutch slave cylinder push rod and lever area, peeling back the rubber boot by chance ???

Can you not loan an extra pair of hands even for 5 mins ? If *he* or *she* is driven around in your car, then ......

What ever you do, make sure car is absolutely safe up in the air, and take your time.

 

[puntodad19]

Twas fragile alloy casting I was thinking of....

 

[puntodad19]

Sadly I do not think there is way of viewing the pressure plate fingers or the release bearing easily, other than starter motor off and suitable mirror like a dentist may use.....or endoscope possibly....clutch has done 100k miles plus and is original ?

 

[AnthonyH]

Sadly I do not think there is way of viewing the pressure plate fingers or the release bearing easily, other than starter motor off and suitable mirror like a dentist may use.....or endoscope possibly....clutch has done 100k miles plus and is original ?

The clutch/gearbox has been off but not while i've owned the car, I can tell because the engine mount is in the kind of condition that says so. It must have been the gearbox that went bad, and the clutch wasn't changed at the same time.

 

[AnthonyH]

twascasting I was thinking of....

Bricks, wood, milk crate, banana box, anything suitable to keep the shaft etc. In line, and so it doesn't crash to the floor when the drive joint pops out.

Righto. I've seen the price of them, so I don't want to be replacing them!

Remember to catch the oil in s clean container if not already drained.

Already drained and dry. I'm about 99% sure that the throw out bearing has failed and its causing the screech.

As to the clutch screach, at 100k miles plus, is the gearbox coming off to further investigate this ?

I have a new clutch kit to fit.

Can you see the clutch withdrawal bearing and pressure plate fingers via clutch slave cylinder push rod and lever area, peeling back the rubber boot by chance ???

Can you not loan an extra pair of hands even for 5 mins ? If *he* or *she* is driven around in your car, then ......

Thanks for the idea, i can borrow somebody to hold the driveshaft up, or twist/wriggle it. That's worth a try!

What ever you do, make sure car is absolutely safe up in the air, and take your time.

I'm working at a glacial pace. Checking, rechecking, researching, asking questions here. I don't mind it taking a while. I've tried to rush things in the past and it never ends well, i get annoyed and want to break things lol. I've never changed a clutch before, so i'm going to have to live with trial and error, lots of error...although I can imagine its only really getting these driveshafts off that requires much skill and know how. The rest at least for the time being appears to be straight forward.

 

[rmjbn1]

As puntodad says, rotating the shaft is to get the gap in the clip at the top, making it easier to pop off. As per posts 14 & 38 above.

One option might be to remove the big clip from the boot over the inner cv joint. Then you can slide the driveshaft out of the inner joint, leaving the joint in place, if that makes it easier to work on.

Put a plastic bag over each end to protect from grit.

Photo courtesy of koalar over on the Panda pages (same 'box)