Technical Scratching clutch....

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Technical Scratching clutch....

I've just been out there testing the input shaft and I took some video. I'm about as certain as I could be that the input shaft bearing is fine. While turning it the resistance feels smooth and consistent.




I intended to get the new clutch on today, but found myself struggling to use the clutch alignment tool. I imagine it won't be much trouble now I can set that properly. I also cleaned the gearbox gently. It was nice being in the sun! :)
 
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Hi Adam,
Using the last parts exploded view view, part number 6 certainly looks like an oil seal, and described as such. I fits into the casting and alows the gear selection shaft to partly rotate, and go in and out, yes ?

If I am correct, there is a consatiened bellows gaiter as well ??

Gasket for casting to gearbox, and spring dowels ?

The spring dowels, removed to allow the gear selector shaft removal and easy seal change ?

IF your gunna remove a/the spring dowels, get some new ones....

The splines on the gearbox input shaft/first motion shaft need to be clean, rust free and lightly lubed, for when the gearbox is refitted.

Remember I mentioned some suitably long threaded studding to make at least two convenient and removable gearbox aligning studs, to make life easy for your self.


The gearbox input shaft/first motion shaft, the splined shaft, it's oil seal and bearing......?

It's been remarked that that bearing and seal may be problematic due to heat and low oil level etc...


How is it. How does the shaft turn, stiff, notchy, gritty, Crunchy or anything other than very smooth, quiet with no play ????

The fingers on the pressure plate looked fubar, as the clutch release bearing is.

You also renewing the fork bearing shuff.....


So in effect, more or less, a complete new clutch along with clutch release mech, and other stuff as necessary ?

I love that phlem green !

Remember black dust in bell housing will contain asbestos more as like, and should be cleaned out .


Clutch debris/dust may/will contain metallics as well which can influence any electrical sensors housed in the bell housing and best the flywheel. I do not think your bellhousing has any sensors, but remember for future reference.

People reading this will also take note.

Finally, the clutch hydraulics.....at least a change of fluid...
 
Yes, absolutely wonderfull day for being under a car...lovely birdsong at 5:30 this morning.

Snow mid week ☹️
 
Yes, absolutely wonderfull day for being under a car...lovely birdsong at 5:30 this morning.

Snow mid week ☹️
 
By the way, did you drain gearbox oil, cleanish, black and horrible with bits in it, inspect drained oil.
 
By the way, did you drain gearbox oil, cleanish, black and horrible with bits in it, inspect drained oil.
 
By the way, did you drain gearbox oil, cleanish, black and horrible with bits in it, inspect drained oil.
 
By the way, did you drain gearbox oil, cleanish, black and horrible with bits in it, inspect drained oil.By
 
By the way, did you drain gearbox oil, cleanish, black and horrible with bits in it, inspect drained oil.By
 
As for gear selector seal, there is no need for further instruction. There is a Guide (and Discussion with pictures and YT video).
https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/guide-renewing-a-gear-shifter-seal.461989/post-4686106

You can "pimp" the selector (add boot, change the breather/vent for more professional type), but it doesn't help much (it will leak again some day).
Vent_change_and_extra_boot.jpg

Sand blasting ("glass beading") + clear coat.
Pimp_my_selector.jpg
 
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Hi Adam,
Using the last parts exploded view view, part number 6 certainly looks like an oil seal, and described as such. I fits into the casting and alows the gear selection shaft to partly rotate, and go in and out, yes ?

If I am correct, there is a consatiened bellows gaiter as well ??

Gasket for casting to gearbox, and spring dowels ?

The spring dowels, removed to allow the gear selector shaft removal and easy seal change ?

IF your gunna remove a/the spring dowels, get some new ones....

The splines on the gearbox input shaft/first motion shaft need to be clean, rust free and lightly lubed, for when the gearbox is refitted.

Remember I mentioned some suitably long threaded studding to make at least two convenient and removable gearbox aligning studs, to make life easy for your self.


The gearbox input shaft/first motion shaft, the splined shaft, it's oil seal and bearing......?

It's been remarked that that bearing and seal may be problematic due to heat and low oil level etc...


How is it. How does the shaft turn, stiff, notchy, gritty, Crunchy or anything other than very smooth, quiet with no play ????

The fingers on the pressure plate looked fubar, as the clutch release bearing is.

You also renewing the fork bearing shuff.....


So in effect, more or less, a complete new clutch along with clutch release mech, and other stuff as necessary ?

I love that phlem green !

Remember black dust in bell housing will contain asbestos more as like, and should be cleaned out .


Clutch debris/dust may/will contain metallics as well which can influence any electrical sensors housed in the bell housing and best the flywheel. I do not think your bellhousing has any sensors, but remember for future reference.

People reading this will also take note.

Finally, the clutch hydraulics.....at least a change of fluid...

I think that the gearbox doesn't need dowels because there is a big bolt that sticks out that must be correctly placed and also the input shaft bearing. So those two act as dowels for approximate placement. And I have an alignment tool for finer placement.

I will be replacing everything in the master cylinder because the front brakes need doing as well. I don't think the slave needs bleeding because it didn't have a problem, but I don't currently know how to do that anyway?

I'm waiting for gearbox parts now so i'm getting on with placing the new clutch. Hopefully getting the gearbox on won't be a problem ! :)

A new fork and bushes are going to go on because i'm not keen on the throw out bearing failing again.

Yes, absolutely wonderfull day for being under a car...lovely birdsong at 5:30 this morning.

Its been lovely having a summer weekend so early in spring!
 
Sealed ball type ones were successively replaced with open roller version.
Well that's interesting. So later gearboxes (like the Punto EVO in this thread) have roller bearings in place of ball bearings for the input shaft?
Presumably more durable, hence Anthony's seems fine despite running with no oil?
Here's mine (2004 1.2 Panda) at about 100k miles (160k km). Not sealed, cage had evaporated, badly pitted, rattled horribly:
IMG_20250309_214819.jpgIMG_20250309_214851.jpg
I put in a standard SKF 6204, but it would be good to know of a stronger replacement next time mine needs doing.
 
Grande 2009, input shaft, open roller bearing...
Grande_2009_input_shaft_roller_bearing.jpg


There are commercially available bearing kits, modified (one or more bearings are open roller, not sealed balls). This is "stage 2" set below.
Alternative "solution" is removing the seals. You turn the ball bearing into open type.
Modified_bearings_set_C514-GearBox.jpg

One failed bearing swap is not enough. Cage debris will fall into differential, killing main bearings etc.
You must completely dismantle the box and inspect everything.
 
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I put the clutch on this morning but it didn't go on straight. I used an alignment tool, i checked when i put the parts together that they were aligned but then they moved somehow. Makes me wonder if it was worth buying that tool at all.

Is there a principle or idea for getting it to go on properly?


1741863132933.jpg


1741863090368.jpg
 
That did help, thanks. On the video i watched some time ago the guy said words to the effect of "leave it a little loose". This guy tightened it up a lot more, and when i did that it went on the car without moving.

I can now see why the previous mechanic didn't torque up the clutch bolts, he was expecting to faff around adjusting. So this car is on its 3rd clutch now.

I'll try to get the gearbox back on a day or two, so i'll know if its properly aligned for sure then :)
 
I had a go at getting the gearbox back on to the car this morning. I tried to do this by hand on the driveway and it didn't work. There is too little room, the gearbox is too heavy and my ribs were getting crushed! So i have to lift it with a jack? Any other thoughts?
 
I couldn't do it by myself, needed a glamorous assistant to take some of the weight from above whilst I pushed it from underneath

Or you could lay a timber across the front wings with rope/strap to support it, as here:
 
I didn't realise what a problem getting the gearbox back on was going to be lol. I'm in the bemused stage of the learning process now. I'll probably try to wrestle it from below again once more tomorrow, but i'm not hopeful.

I've had a look at the thread linked and it offers a viable way of getting the gearbox back on, i have some 4x2 wood in the yard and straps up in the loft. There's a lot to read and haven't quite finished yet.
 
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