Technical Rusted rear wheel drum won't move

[AnthonyH]

I'd say that will be fine once tightened

I stopped the leak. Your post was very helpful - thank you! I kept taking it off and putting it back on until I found the technique that it wanted. I had to hold the brake pipe pressed in really tight and at the same time thread the whole way or else it was tightening too early and slightly off centre. Result

 

[AnthonyH]

I put the brake back in a while ago but haven't bled it yet, I've not had time. I did however get a bottle, drill a hole in it, put the pipe in and fill with dot 4. So I'm ready to go tomorrow.

My question is should I also bleed the front brakes? I changed those without issue a month or more ago. I didn't bleed them though, as a closed system there didn't seem to be much point. As far as I can remember they were just fine but I only drove on them once or twice.

 

[bugsymike]

I stopped the leak. Your post was very helpful - thank you! I kept taking it off and putting it back on until I found the technique that it wanted. I had to hold the brake pipe pressed in really tight and at the same time thread the whole way or else it was tightening too early and slightly off centre. Result

Does sound like it was trying to "cross thread" which could be a problem if not properly secure, so give a good check after pressure testing etc.
Re the other issue I suggest you see what the brake pedal is like when you have satisfied your self that the rear brakes are all good.
If pedal hard and car stops well with no leaks in the system, it should be OK.

 

[AnthonyH]

Does sound like it was trying to "cross thread" which could be a problem if not properly secure, so give a good check after pressure testing etc.
Re the other issue I suggest you see what the brake pedal is like when you have satisfied your self that the rear brakes are all good.
If pedal hard and car stops well with no leaks in the system, it should be OK.

The pipe has a kink in it that I didn't spot! So I had to account for that. I'm telling myself it's a good learning experience lol.

I'll leave the front then, fingers crossed for tomorrow

 

[vexorg]

If you didn't undo the front pipe then there's no reason to bleed them, unless it's for age of the fluid.

 

[AnthonyH]

If you didn't undo the front pipe then there's no reason to bleed them, unless it's for age of the fluid.

I was hoping that was the case. I'll leave well alone.

 

[AnthonyH]

As far as I can tell the brake bled ok. I pumped 6 or 7 times and there were no air bubbles getting back into the line. But the brake feels a tiny bit mushy none the less. I compared its mushyness to my EVO and both need about 3 pumps to achieve full braking efficiency (I've not done anything with the EVO brakes myself). Only my second GP has perfectly hard brakes.

I took it for a little drive and the brakes were OK but its scraping, grrr. In the videos I've watched it said turn the drum after fitting new shoes and leave a little scrape, so that's what I thought I'd done, but its too big of a scrape, so I'm going to have to slacken off the brake adjuster tomorrow. On the plus side there are no leaks. My apprenticeship in back brakes continues

 

[vexorg]

How did you bleed the brakes?

 

[AnthonyH]

How did you bleed the brakes?

I made this, the pipe fits over the bleed nut tightly and after pumping on the pedal 6-7 times I could see that the pipe was completely full of fluid and no air bubbles. Its possible air could have gone higher up the line I suppose? Or the other brakes might have needed bleeding even before I began. The master cylinder isn't low and I haven't let it get low. I'm not sure if i'll be bleeding it again, maybe...? I'm pretty sure I'm missing something, but as yet i'm not sure what it is...

Edit: I pumped the brakes a moment ago again and I will have to bleed them again, they aren't terrible and wouldn't fail to stop the car, but I'd like them harder.

 

[vexorg]

I wouldn't thrust that method of bleeding, needs two people, or pressured header, or even the ones with one way valves.

 

[AnthonyH]

OK, i'll have a rethink, maybe there was too long in between me pumping and the bleed nut closing, and I missed some bubbles going back in.

 

[AnthonyH]

I had another go at this today. I bled the brake again but couldn't get anymore air out, so I'm thinking the mush is coming from one of the other brakes.

The more immediate problem is that the drum isn't going back onto the hub properly. Its catching ever so slightly on the shoes and levering the drum off centre. I've backed off the adjuster as much as it will go, and spent an hour moving the assembly around slightly to try to get it to centre but it won't go on properly. Its been left like this on one side and wider over the other. I'm feeling a bit bemused

 

[The Panda Nut]

I wouldn't thrust that method of bleeding, needs two people, or pressured header, or even the ones with one way valves.

I agree they are of assistance yes but not foolproof.

Shoes should settle in after a little use then you can readjust and the results should be better. Back plates bend and old ones bend easily. Likely you just need to ease it away from teh drum with a lever. Put a block of wood on the drum and give it a few sharp firm whacks with a hammer, that usually helps things get in line! Dont hit the drum directly with a hammer as it could break.

 

[vexorg]

I agree they are of assistance yes but not foolproof.

How else would you do it if these are not foolproof?

 

[AnthonyH]

I agree they are of assistance yes but not foolproof.

Shoes should settle in after a little use then you can readjust and the results should be better. Back plates bend and old ones bend easily. Likely you just need to ease it away from teh drum with a lever. Put a block of wood on the drum and give it a few sharp firm whacks with a hammer, that usually helps things get in line! Dont hit the drum directly with a hammer as it could break.

I do like the big lever thwack method lol. There was me thinking I'd have to be gentle in case I broke something

 

[The Panda Nut]

How else would you do it if these are not foolproof?

I use a one man tool. Its a piece of rubber pipe with an end stop, and a slit in the side. This closes up when not being forced to open by fluid exiting the slit. Its OK but as I say not fool proof. I always have the end of the pipe in a pot of fluid to ensire no air can get back. The pot always falls over.... I now mainly use a Gunsons Easi Bleed kit which applies pressure from the nearest tyre, over the fluid via a modofeied reservoir cap with air line attached, and, use the one man bleed valve as well, in addition I use an assistant to pump the pedal. I have just bought a connector that snaps over the brake blled nipple and have apiece of clear pipe joined to my one man valve so I can see if fluid is going the wrong way, or if it has bubbles in. I hope this will make it easier. Its the only benefit of ahving a kiney out, lots of lovely plastic pipes.... untouched by human hands.... pipe joins and syringes! I keep meaning to buy a vacuum brlae bleeder, they are not expensive and probably worth their weight in gold.

 

[AnthonyH]

Shoes should settle in after a little use then you can readjust and the results should be better. Back plates bend and old ones bend easily. Likely you just need to ease it away from teh drum with a lever. Put a block of wood on the drum and give it a few sharp firm whacks with a hammer, that usually helps things get in line! Dont hit the drum directly with a hammer as it could break.

A gentle crowbar shifted the back plate a few mm and the brake was done I feel like celebrating lol. I'm going to try and do the other back brake in one sitting on Friday, i've got my fingers crossed for that.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Dont get too excited take care undoing that pipe and make sure the nut turns and the pipe doesnt.
They get easier with practice...

 

[AnthonyH]

I got the second brake on this morning without any problems, i decided to cut the big spring because i had a spare and i was worried about damaging the wheel cylinder while getting the shoes off. The main issue I had was with bleeding the brakes, the regular spanner i'm using doesn't have good access to the bleed nut so i'm struggling to nip it up in time because it'll only do a micro turn before having to come off.

The brake fluid I took out today looks a lot worse than in the other back brake line, it was coming out all milky and has turned the more or less clean dot 4 that was in this bottle kind of murky. Is there are any reason for this?

Another common problem when using assistant is they don't realise that taking their foot back off the brake pedal whilst the bleeder is open allows air back into the brake system causing more problems. I had less problem getting a 10 year old daughter to follow instructions than a wife who wouldn't be told!

On a side note my wife was around today and so I got her to pump the brake, but then nothing was happening so I go to see what she's doing and I can see her foot on the accelerator pedal. So I said "you're supposed to be pumping the brake" and she replied "Oh yes, sorry, I was pumping the accelerator, and also the last time I helped you!" Then she laughed with uproar. I can see the funny side of this

 

[vexorg]

You don't pump the brake pdeal, it's a controlled sequence. Open nipple, brake down, close nipple, brake up, repeat. That way the fluid only goes one way.