Technical Rusted rear wheel drum won't move

[bugsymike]

I keep my Uno and Regata Haynes manuals.. From @1984..as they Detail Alternator and Starter Motor Rebuilding

Modern era Haynes = buy a replacement unit

I wish I had kept all my Technical Service Data Manuals by Palgrave from the 1970s onwards, I only have a few odd ones now.
It was all the detail you needed to work on vehicles and the settings to rebuild engines etc.
I recall the senior lecturer at college saying when he visited garages he wanted to see them in the workshop covered in oil being used every day, rather than the mechanic having to go to the office so a secretary could read out the detail which happened in some places.
He couldn't stress enough the value of that data.

 

[AnthonyH]

A new brake cylinder is arriving tomorrow and I'm confident it'll be easy from here on

The new brake cylinder never arrived, so I had to order another one that arrived yesterday. I put it all back together this morning. The only mishap was when I started to bleed the brake cylinder, i opened the bleed valve and nothing came out. So i thought i'll have to pump that later when the drum is back on. I went off to clean the drum and when I came back there was brake fluid on the drive, oh well, I guess its bled now! The brake fluid level is ok, I checked that.

I haven't pumped the brakes yet, I'll do that tomorrow and if all is well do the other brake. Does this look OK?

 

[jackwhoo]

The new brake cylinder never arrived, so I had to order another one that arrived yesterday. I put it all back together this morning. The only mishap was when I started to bleed the brake cylinder, i opened the bleed valve and nothing came out. So i thought i'll have to pump that later when the drum is back on. I went off to clean the drum and when I came back there was brake fluid on the drive, oh well, I guess its bled now! The brake fluid level is ok, I checked that.

I haven't pumped the brakes yet, I'll do that tomorrow and if all is well do the other brake. Does this look OK?

View attachment 433720

First glance is there is Wayyyyy to much grease on the hub.....it could very quickly spread to friction surface of drum and ruin the new shoes too.
What type of grease is it?

 

[vexorg]

I wouldn't put any grease on there, cleaned with a wire brush on the drill and make sure it's prefectly flat. Same as front discs, you dont want any risk of being uneven.

Plus I'd still manually bleed it and check for bubbles.

 

[AnthonyH]

Righto, the grease can come off tomorrow and i'll give the hub a polish with wire instead. The grease is called Granville Ceramic Brake Grease. Thanks for the comments.

 

[AnthonyH]

I pumped the brakes this morning and they were spongey, so I got the wheel and drum off to see what was going on and it looks like I hadn't tightened the bleed nut enough. So I tightened it and it broke.

I will go to eurocarparts and buy a better quality one. It'll cost double but it won't break.

What is the best way to bleed this?

 

[vexorg]

You dont need the drum off to check the bleed nipple, and spongy means needing bled to me.

 

[AnthonyH]

I took the drum off to see if anything had moved, which it hadn't, and to remove an excess of grease.

What is the best way to bleed this?

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Correct way is a pressure attachment (you push light pressure 0,5-1,0 bar into brake fluid reservoir).
Classic (amateur) pumping pedal to the floor is a primitive/savage method and should be avoided.

 

[AnthonyH]

Something like this?

Sealey VS0201 Brake Bleeder Set with Container | Euro Car Parts

Sealey VS0201 Brake Bleeder Set with Container at the lowest UK prices from Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 for Car Accessories, Car Styling & Car Care. Buy today Online, In store or by Phone + Branches Nationwide – Next Day UK Free Delivery.

www.eurocarparts.com

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Nope. That's just a stupid container. You can use old bottle/jar, whatever. And standard pneumatic hoses (clear), 6 mm diameter (OD), they fit all bleed nipples tight.

DIY pressure bleeding gizmo. Modified brake fluid tank cap. Pressure regulator. Pressure gage/gauge. That's it. Plus compressor of course.

 

[bugsymike]

Correct way is a pressure attachment (you push light pressure 0,5-1,0 bar into brake fluid reservoir).
Classic (amateur) pumping pedal to the floor is a primitive/savage method and should be avoided.

Speaking as a "Classic amateur" who completed a full motor vehicle five year apprentice ship, passed City and Guilds qualification with Distinctions, National Craftsman Exam, did a couple of years of Industrial Management Course, received an Award for Best Practical Student of my year, been repairing vehicles since 1969, etc. etc. I would say "pumping the pedal" has served me well, along with thousands of other competent motor engineers for many years.
The only time I have found a benefit from pressure bleeding has been on older weak master cylinders which arguably should have been replaced.

 

[AnthonyH]

The pressure bleeding kit does look nice but I'll run with pumping the pedal on the basis I won't be needing the kit very often. Pumping the pedal requires two people I take it? I'll have to enlist the missus in that case.

 

[bugsymike]

The pressure bleeding kit does look nice but I'll run with pumping the pedal on the basis I won't be needing the kit very often. Pumping the pedal requires two people I take it? I'll have to enlist the missus in that case.

No disrespect, but as you appear to be on a learning curve re this job, may I suggest you do what you did before with full reservoir , open the bleeder and allow flow until clean fluid come out, then nip up bleed nipple and try the pedal, assuming it doesn't feel too bad then get your missus to press the pedal, but with instructions not to take her foot off the pedal applying pressure, then slacken bleed nipple, hopefully clean fluid with no air bubbles will shoot out, so nip up bleed nipple again, check fluid reservoir and ask missus to gentle remove foot from pedal, try the pedal and if it feels good and firm then with all brake pipe unions tight and clean, get missus to apply a firm emergency stop pressure to brake pedal and hold it there whilst you check for any leaks, if all OK release pedal, complete reassembly and go for a road test where you can safely try the brakes, assuming all good have another look over brakes to confirm no leaks, also no hot or sticking brakes after all the work done.
Note I say "nip up" bleed nipple, it is tiny and easily snapped, it's not there to hold the wheels on.
Another common problem when using assistant is they don't realise that taking their foot back off the brake pedal whilst the bleeder is open allows air back into the brake system causing more problems. I had less problem getting a 10 year old daughter to follow instructions than a wife who wouldn't be told!
Finally any advise/suggestions I give are just that, so totally your liability, if you are not sure especially about brakes get a professional.
As they say "if a car will not start it's annoying, if it will not stop that is totally different".

 

[AnthonyH]

No disrespect, but as you appear to be on a learning curve re this job, may I suggest you do what you did before with full reservoir , open the bleeder and allow flow until clean fluid come out, then nip up bleed nipple and try the pedal, assuming it doesn't feel too bad then get your missus to press the pedal, but with instructions not to take her foot off the pedal applying pressure, then slacken bleed nipple, hopefully clean fluid with no air bubbles will shoot out, so nip up bleed nipple again, check fluid reservoir and ask missus to gentle remove foot from pedal, try the pedal and if it feels good and firm then with all brake pipe unions tight and clean, get missus to apply a firm emergency stop pressure to brake pedal and hold it there whilst you check for any leaks, if all OK release pedal, complete reassembly and go for a road test where you can safely try the brakes, assuming all good have another look over brakes to confirm no leaks, also no hot or sticking brakes after all the work done.
Note I say "nip up" bleed nipple, it is tiny and easily snapped, it's not there to hold the wheels on.
Another common problem when using assistant is they don't realise that taking their foot back off the brake pedal whilst the bleeder is open allows air back into the brake system causing more problems. I had less problem getting a 10 year old daughter to follow instructions than a wife who wouldn't be told!
Finally any advise/suggestions I give are just that, so totally your liability, if you are not sure especially about brakes get a professional.
As they say "if a car will not start it's annoying, if it will not stop that is totally different".

I was hoping someone was going to give me more exact instructions This is the first time i've changed rear brakes and it is a lot harder than I imagined. It will be worth it, especially as I know my EVO is getting low too.

You already know my wife LOL I'll get my son to step on the pedal!

Regards.

 

[bugsymike]

I was hoping someone was going to give me more exact instructions This is the first time i've changed rear brakes and it is a lot harder than I imagined. It will be worth it, especially as I know my EVO is getting low too.

You already know my wife LOL I'll get my son to step on the pedal!

Regards.

It is often frowned on, but when you accidentally left the bleeder open it chased the air out of the system, the only danger is if the reservoir runs out then you will have to bleed the entire system so don't let it run out!
Around 1970 when this Country still had a motor industry I visited one and the way they bled the brakes on brand new vehicles was to connect a large tank up in the upper floor of the factory via a hose and adaptor to the brake master cylinder while the workers simply opened the bleed valves until clean brake fluid came out then nipped them up tight, so gravity did the job. No fancy pressure bleeders etc. That is a fact!

 

[AnthonyH]

It is often frowned on, but when you accidentally left the bleeder open it chased the air out of the system, the only danger is if the reservoir runs out then you will have to bleed the entire system so don't let it run out!
Around 1970 when this Country still had a motor industry I visited one and the way they bled the brakes on brand new vehicles was to connect a large tank up in the upper floor of the factory via a hose and adaptor to the brake master cylinder while the workers simply opened the bleed valves until clean brake fluid came out then nipped them up tight, so gravity did the job. No fancy pressure bleeders etc. That is a fact!

When I saw the leak I checked the reservoir and it hadn't lost much fluid, I topped it up anyway, so I've avoided that one so far, I'll go and check it again in a moment and top up again if its lost anything.

OK I checked again and its more or less the same as before, so I'm not doing all 4 brakes, unless something else goes wrong!

 

[vexorg]

Classic (amateur) pumping pedal to the floor is a primitive/savage method and should be avoided.

Rubbish!!, two man method is never fails even when all the new fancy kit doesn't get the job done. The only benefit of the pressure method is that it can be done by one man.

 

[vexorg]

It is often frowned on, but when you accidentally left the bleeder open it chased the air out of the system, the only danger is if the reservoir runs out then you will have to bleed the entire system so don't let it run out!

I still wouldn't be happy as there's a small risk of air getting drawn back in.

 

[bugsymike]

I agree , which is why I mentioned the final bit done normally with someone on the pedal.
Certain brake systems are more troublesome than others, for example 1970s Fords with Girling brakes could be done quickly with two mechanics , open bleeder , pump fast and then pedal down, close bleeder job done , but if you tried that with a Morris 1000 with the Lockheed master cylinder it wouldn't work as the Lockheed had a much slower recovery rate and older ones would even suck air in from the back seal of the master cylinder.Another example was Hillman Hunters with large bore plastic pipe to clutch slave cylinder, you could actually see the air bubbles going backwards and forwards in the tube, however by removing the bleeder altogether and keeping the master cylinder topped up it would self bleed easily.
At the end of the day whether manual, vacuum or pressure they all suit different needs to get the job done.
Often working on my own, I have been able to fit a dual circuit brake master cylinder to a car, leave all four outlet pipes off, let brake fluid run out til clean, refit the pipes semi loose, reach over whilst working the brake pedal and bled first the two pipes furthest away , then the other two until only clean fluid coming out, tightened cleaned off and pressure tested and pedal perfect with no need to go to the wheels to bleed as only replaced master cylinder, followed up by a good road test to confirm as no way would I send out a vehicle with sloppy brakes.
However the caveat being, what an experienced motor engineer can achieve with years of experience is different to an enthusiastic amateur no matter how well intended, so as I mentioned earlier in the posting " if you are not sure especially about brakes get a professional."