Technical Removing Alternator from 1.2 69hp

[The Panda Nut]

I noticed tonight a nasty noise from our 1.2 engine. It sounds like a dry alternator bearing and cut in and out when revving engine to 2000rpm approx. Its charging but something is not right, could be a cam belt tensioner. Daughter has had to drive it through deep floods in the last few weeks evidenced by debris in the air con rad. I thought I would whip the alternator out, but reading the Haynes book it looks like a pig of a job. Remove drive shaft, engine mounts, air box ...

Has anyone got any info on whats involved as I want to dismantle and check bearings / lubricate as first step to diagnosis. Is it as bad as it sounds?

 

[koalar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckhp1lsF44E


appears so


I would check the tension pully

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Sounds like a "long screwdriver stuck in your ear" diagnostic job - or automotive stethoscope if you're posh? This was a simple job on my old 1992 Panda Parade but I have looked with trepidation at how I would do it on our newer 2010 Panda Dynamic Eco because the air con compressor is in the way. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that it turns out to be the tensioner.

 

[timmycm850]

You could just whip the belt off and spin the alternator to find out if it's that.

Our 1.2 petrol aircon cam tensioner bearing ceased up recently, it could be that instead. Only cost £40for the new belt and bearing and away it went again.
Tim

 

[varesecrazy]

Agree..

If the noise is a constant..

Slacken the autotensioner and run the engine briefly with no Aux belt..

If its silent.. then spin the alternator by hand

If the noise is still there.. do a little dance.. youve saved yourself A LOT of unnecessary grief

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Give the tensioner a spin too while you're in there - Also. if it's a bit marginal, the alternator bearing may only be making a noise when under the tension of it's drive belt? For this reason I prefer to get a long screwdriver and, resting it's tip carefully against the suspect component, place the handle to your ear. You'll soon hear where the noisy bearing is. Take the very greatest care not to let the end of the screwdriver get tangled up in a rotating belt or pulley - it hurts a lot!

 

[AB100]

I noticed tonight a nasty noise from our 1.2 engine. It sounds like a dry alternator bearing and cut in and out when revving engine to 2000rpm approx. Its charging but something is not right, could be a cam belt tensioner. Daughter has had to drive it through deep floods in the last few weeks evidenced by debris in the air con rad. I thought I would whip the alternator out, but reading the Haynes book it looks like a pig of a job. Remove drive shaft, engine mounts, air box ...

Has anyone got any info on whats involved as I want to dismantle and check bearings / lubricate as first step to diagnosis. Is it as bad as it sounds?

exactly the same thing happened to ours a few years back after a single 'deep puddle' incident. Was suggested it was the aircon pump so took it to these folks - it was the alternator. He wasn't happy as it was a pig to remove from underneath. we just stuck a new one one to be honest.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks everyone.
I had him over the pit today and I am pretty sure it is the alternator having listened to everything. It probably went right under water in the flood the water mark on the radiator in leaves etc was 2" below the headlights. Panda looks like 6" is its max safe fording depth. I have tried my age old cure for now, a good soaking with spray 3 in 1 and PTFE it was running quietly for half an hour afterwards so it may just settle back. If not I think I will take the o/s suspension off and see if that will permit removal of said part. Without actually removing the drive shaft. It looks as if it would work and as far as I am concerned would be easier.

In 19 years with a Seat Leon I think only once have I had cause to fault the Seat for daft access to service parts and then it wan't as bad as this looks. Its tempting to get someone else to do it, but I don't trust anyone not to mess up something else. All I need to do now is identify which alternator it needs. I had this neat idea to take the one off the wife's car and swap it and then put new part on the newer car. I think I might give that a miss! Cam belt etc was done just 2 years ago so hopefully she hasn't messed that up too.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Its tempting to get someone else to do it, but I don't trust anyone not to mess up something else.

I had this neat idea to take the one off the wife's car and swap it and then put new part on the newer car. I think I might give that a miss! Cam belt etc was done just 2 years ago so hopefully she hasn't messed that up too.

Exactly my attitude, lack of trust is a terrible affliction but I'm afraid experience has taught me it's well founded!

I think, on so many newer cars, swapping parts like this is a non starter because they continuously make so many small alterations to them and you then find an ECU starts protesting. I have to say though that Fiat uses so much rather older technology, and maybe less of it? than others that I am of the opinion you are more likely to get away with these practices than with most other manufacturers. I would be sorely tempted to try a swap like this too, but maybe not this actual one seeing how awkward it seems to be to do.

I'll keep fingers crossed for you regarding the cam belt. Very unlikely the belt itself will be "bothered" by a bit of dirty water and the idler and water pump bearings are well protected by their lip seals so I would be surprised if they give you any trouble. (note to self, practice putting on "surprised" look!)

As an aside, when I was buying my new Vacuum cleaner a few months back there was a domestic appliance engineer buying a new drum assembly for a clothes washing machine at the sales bench next to me. I was fascinated to see that the bearing assembly, and in particular it's seal arrangement, looked exactly like a modern one piece front wheel bearing assembly!

 

[DaveMcT]

I recently replaced the alternator on Mrs Dave's 1.2 Dynamic. It has air-con with the pump sitting above the alternator so access is abysmal. I expect that Fiat say the aircon pump must be removed for access.

The accessory belt tensioner spring is pretty strong. Use a pair of ring spanners to get enough leverage to lift against the spring. If the belt ribs are cracking when bent backwards - replace the belt. While in there, check the timing belt as both belts are likely to be the same age.
The alternator top bolt is below the air con pump. You might be able to see it with a mirror but socket fitting is done by feel alone. It's accessed from above. I used a 3/8 socket to get it started, then switched to a 1/4 to wind it it out. It takes ages and has to be done by feel.
The bottom bolt(s) was partially seized, because Fiat seem to think that open ended bolts are a good idea. The thread bottom end will pick up with alloy corrosion and you will be lucky if they don't strip.
The alternator has to come out from below. BE CAREFUL it's heavy and you'll be working at arm's length. I disconnected the exhaust pipe to get it away from the car. There might be another way but this was the least harmful to my hands getting trapped.

Clean all threads and use copper paste all the way along the bolts (not just the threads).

Its a pain in the arse but it is DIY able if you have a decent socket set and spanners.

It put the old alternator in the garage. Two weeks later, it was seized solid. The casing was cracked a sign of rusty rotor expanding.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I recently replaced the alternator on Mrs Dave's 1.2 Dynamic. It has air-con with the pump sitting above the alternator so access is abysmal. I expect that Fiat say the aircon pump must be removed for access.

Mercifully after soaking the whole thing from every possible angle, with WD40 PTFE pernetrting fluid, silicon WD40 and good old engine oile on the end bearings, and more WD40.... its returned to normal and has not made a sound since.

I think when the next cam belt is done I shall go OTT and replace lots pof stuff including the alternator and front pipe at the same time. Its still only just done 50K but at 10 years old its likely that some of the ancillaries may start to go before long so may eb cost effective in the end.

If its just the alternator I will follow your guidance. Thanks for the advice.

 

[DaveMcT]

My wife's Panda is a similar age and mileage but her alternator failed. To make life easier for moving it soak the bolts with a good penetrating oil. Such as ACF-50 is very good because it seeps into areas that others just run off.

You need to get the stuff into the back ends of the bolts, ideally weeks before you need to do the job. For some reason Fiat drill them right through, allowing corrosion into the bottom end of the threads. Do everything you can find. Alternator brackets, aircon pump, gearbox, etc.