General Power steering

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General Power steering

Hey Mike,
I've got the second hand column to which had movement in and now it's fitted it's still got play.
So if the offer for the bearing is still on offer I'd like it please.
Let me know how much you want for the bearing plus postage to targua.
Cheers
James

Hey James,
I will get the bearing out and ready.
The postage I don't think is too much, you'll have to pm me the name and address and I will find out how much exactly, probably around 5 pounds.
The bearing itself will be my gift to you, don't have to pay for it.
 
But are the shaft and sleeve from your column ok or were they hit and are off-center?
Cause otherwise, as judderbar said, it's kind of pretty hard to brake that bering, exept if column was hit hard there.
Did you take the bearing you bought out and placed it in your column or did you replaced entire upper part?
I'm asking in case you might be needing other parts aside the bearing.
 
But are the shaft and sleeve from your column ok or were they hit and are off-center?
Cause otherwise, as judderbar said, it's kind of pretty hard to brake that bering, exept if column was hit hard there.
Did you take the bearing you bought out and placed it in your column or did you replaced entire upper part?
I'm asking in case you might be needing other parts aside the bearing.

That's great.
I just replaced the whole upper column so I still have the original sleeve and shaft which is already apart with the bearing removed.
Both the sleeve and the shaft are in good condition so I only need the bearing thanks.
Would you like me to get Cosmin to call you with regards the address?
Also many thanks and if you let hey you account number and sort code I can transfer some money for you.
James
 
I just find it a little to big of a coincidence the fact that there are 2 broken column bearings and you've managed to get them both.
Please carefully check if the play does not come from another segment in the column, maybe I can send that.
 
I just find it a little to big of a coincidence the fact that there are 2 broken column bearings and you've managed to get them both.
Please carefully check if the play does not come from another segment in the column, maybe I can send that.

I've checked it so many times. I don't think there's bearings are broken. I think they are just worn.
I don't understand why the bearing is not available.
I did find it on Hong Kong but trade only. Have to buy a truck full!
The steering wheel fits fine with no play. The bottom of the shaft is a tight fit into the torque sensor.
If you have email or what's app I can probably send you a video.....
 
I've just found and purchased off eBay the top section of the steering column for £25
Hopefully the bearing in that is good. They said it was so we will see.

I got that you've purchased this part and you took the bearing out of this one too and placed it into your column? Is that correct? If so, you now have two "worn" bearings that gives play of steering wheel.
Did you test how the shaft feels after you've placed that second bearing? Is the play in the bearing?
I checked this part I have (and also the steering wheel in my car). I can tell you that there is definitely side play if you unlock the locking lever.
So is that lever pushed down in locking position at yours?
And also, is the mechanism working? Is that spring not broken and placed in the correct position?
You could get play if the nuts that hold the column are not proper tighten. Are they at yours?
Of course is possible that those two bearings you have to be both worn as you've said, but I want you to check to be sure that they are so that when you get the bearing I'm sending you to be able to really fix the column and not to be left with play in it anymore.
 

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I've checked it so many times. I don't think there's bearings are broken. I think they are just worn.
I don't understand why the bearing is not available.
I did find it on Hong Kong but trade only. Have to buy a truck full!
The steering wheel fits fine with no play. The bottom of the shaft is a tight fit into the torque sensor.
If you have email or what's app I can probably send you a video.....

Yes, I have whattsapp, I sent you the no. in message box.
 
Wow, I've seen the video with your steering wheel. That really looks bad.
But is that really coming from the bearing?
A first thought is that the steering wheel's hole is somehow larger. That have like 3 outer metal lines so that you can place the st. wheel straight, are those still intact?
Does the shaft has the play if you get just the steering wheel out?
And another thing... if it really is from the bearing, I think that bashing into shaft to get the bearing out can do such damage to bearing. So if you find for sure that the bearing is causing it, I will take mine to a friend that works in a service, to get it out with a press, not to bash into it.
 
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Does your column have those two bearings in, the ones in and out of the sensor box (the metal box where sensor is placed in), the ones that I thought in the first place that you are referring at?
 
You can see the outside one, without having to dismount all there is, it has a large 36.5 mm nut that holds it. And is that nut as tigh as it should be?
 
James, did you forget by any chance to put those two nuts that hold this upper column part on the car? They come on the holes in line with the lever in my pic.
Just asking
 
You've mentioned this clearly, sorry that I have not paid attention and asked again...

The first column which is in the video came straight from the reconditioned so I had not touched it apart from fitting.
There is no bearing at the bottom of the shaft by the torque sensor. I don't believe this column has one there but I could be wrong.
I checked the replacement before I fitted it and there was a bit of play. I fitted and hoped for the best.
I admit, in getting a bit frustrated with it now.
I'll remove the steering and lock two nuts together on the thread and then get a pair of vice grips and wiggle it. I'll get it on video so I can send you it.
 
I had another look at the bearing

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/480193-power-steering-3.html?p=4576296

It looks like the outer part of angular contact bearing fits loosely into the outer tube and once the inner part is correctly positioned (tightly) on the steering shaft then the tabs are bent to give the correct clearance of the bearing. If the bearing is loose you can therefore bend the tabs further inwards to move the outer bearing further into the tube and close the clearance?
 
Update of the situation:
I've established with James that I will send him the bearing that I have. Unfortunately I could not send it, as I've damaged it by a stupid mistake.
You can see my work in the pics below.
I've started to get the bearing out of the spare column I have. I got the shaft out nice and then I made the mistake of trying to get the bearing out by pressing it down the same direction the shaft went out. I put the shaft upside down in the bearing hoping not to damage it. Later I found out there is a stopping ring that do not allow bearing to go down further more than it sits, but by that time I've damaged it by bashing into the shaft. I tried to get it out by downward route thinking that although the upper route is shorter maybe I could not unbent the tabs completely and they would hold the bearing. As I've said, a stupid mistake.
But I want to mention here the fact that now, after I saw how that bearing looks like, I think James is right and that bearing really is the reason of play into his column. I couldn't believe it until I saw the bearing and that is because I assumed it is a normal balls/pin rolls bearing. But in fact it is made with very small balls and also have 2 gaskets inside, 1 up 1 down. That is the damaged I've done, I broke those gaskets, one remained inside but part of the other you can see in the pic. So that is a very sensitive bearing that can easily get damaged (not my case as I really hit the one I broke) and maybe people who had the problem with it changed them with a functional one from another column as they cannot be bought on the market.
But I cam up with a fixing solution, that is a DIY bearing made out of pin rolls size 7mm x 10mm length, 12 pcs put between the shaft and the sleeve, plus for the last gap, as it is smaller then 7 mm, use a 6 mm pin roll. To have them sit in place, use 2 washers, one underneath and one above. You can see this in the pics as I've taken the upper column and went into a bearings shop to check if they have what is needed and how it fits. It fits very good.
The needed size washers are not to be found and for testing reasons I tried with what I could find. That is a 30x36mm copper washer and it holds the pins nice in place, no play and there is still space left for the tabs to be bent in. I thought that washer is not large enough to hold the grease in, grease that anyone will put into a bearing, being it self made, to work correctly. So for that to be corrected I found they have copper washers (by the way the height of washers is 2mm) size 24x30 and one of that can be put into a 30x36mm one, put some gum between them on a side and on the other side solder them together. The gum is just for the time soldering is done, to block the soldering material pouring through and then it can be taken away and place the obtained larger washers with the soldered part outside the pin rolls. Another way is to have done by a lathe a needed sized washer (well, actually 2 as one comes on top), the size can be 22.5 or 23mm x 36mm and they can be done by copper or another resistant material.
The costs of washers and pin rolls here is about 9 pounds.
James liked this idea and he even got it further and came up with another fix: a bush made by Delrin bar with the help of a lathe.
 

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I had another look at the bearing

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/480193-power-steering-3.html?p=4576296

It looks like the outer part of angular contact bearing fits loosely into the outer tube and once the inner part is correctly positioned (tightly) on the steering shaft then the tabs are bent to give the correct clearance of the bearing. If the bearing is loose you can therefore bend the tabs further inwards to move the outer bearing further into the tube and close the clearance?

I'm afraid that the bearing is a tight fit, using a press, up to a shoulder and the tabs hold it tight in place
 
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I've now dropped it all off for a delrin bush to be made be a friend of mine. I'll post back here when done.
 
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Picked it up of my friend. It looks really good and I can't wait to fit it. I just wonder how long it will last.
 
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