Technical Po236-7a and po236-61

[Gravelrash]

Hi all, first post! Ducato 2017, twin EGR. Got the following codes - po236-7a and po236-61, limp mode and the check engine light on. Just waiting on a new MAP sensor and boost solenoid. No splits on the hoses, exhaust isn't sooty. Do either of these two components look likely? And, side note, what absolute spoon put the map sensor there - I've lost skin by the inch.

 

[jackwhoo]

@Fredastaire

 

[Fredastaire]

With a twin EGR Ducato is almost critical that you invest in Multiecuscan to use on a windows based laptop. You can then go for a run, watch live data AND check what issue your engine software is, needs to be 28 or 32. Any lower you MUST go to a Fiat dealer for an update to avoid future expensive damage of the DPF.
@theoneandonly will advise on Multiecuscan templates / parameters.
The data run will show if the turbo is lethargic.
Now to the current problem, yes your choice is obvious HOWEVER only fit genuine OE parts, do not accept aftermarket options.
Now check the tiny rubber hoses from the vacuum pump to the black box air receiver and down to the turbo solenoid, it's know both for perishing cracks and rodent chewing it, also remove and check the air filter as mice like nesting there.

 

[Gravelrash]

@Fredastaire thanks mate. Running MultiEcuScan (paid), just not had a chance to capture the live data yet. Paid for OE sensors. Hoses and air box are fine, engine's only got about 2500 miles on it, new turbo, but most of the sensors and ancillaries are original, 43k on the clock. Cloned ECU, 0023 for the software version. I hear the boost solenoid's have a bit of a short working life?

 

[jackwhoo]

0023 software? Is that a typo?

 

[Gravelrash]

0023 software? Is that a typo?

 

[jackwhoo]

Fredastaire will have some further firm advice about that, that could save you a lot of pain in the future. (-:

 

[Fredastaire]

23 is ancient, as none of us works for Fiat we can't ask them. V28 and V32 have been around since late 2019 (I think). Best to say it would be wise to pay for the latest. Here again we think that V28 is for manual vans and we think V32 is for autos, again as we are not Fiat this is educated opinion.
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We had a member on here 3 years back who had a long tale of woe, after most items changed (yes including the engine), he then ran to 280,000 miles as car transporter however he recorded regularly having to replace the turbo solenoid.

 

[Gravelrash]

23 is ancient, as none of us works for Fiat we can't ask them. V28 and V32 have been around since late 2019 (I think). Best to say it would be wise to pay for the latest. Here again we think that V28 is for manual vans and we think V32 is for autos, again as we are not Fiat this is educated opinion.
.
We had a member on here 3 years back who had a long tale of woe, after most items changed (yes including the engine), he then ran to 280,000 miles as car transporter however he recorded regularly having to replace the turbo solenoid.

Turns out, in deepest, darkest Lincolnshire, it's damn hard to find anyone deemed worthy of placing the hallowed update onto the holy ECU. Trying to find an Acolyte of Fiat and failing miserably so far. Think I know the guy you mean, found that when hunting for issues, ended up replacing it every 24k?

 

[jackwhoo]

Turns out, in deepest, darkest Lincolnshire, it's damn hard to find anyone deemed worthy of placing the hallowed update onto the holy ECU. Trying to find an Acolyte of Fiat and failing miserably so far. Think I know the guy you mean, found that when hunting for issues, ended up replacing it every 24k?

Do get software update even if it means Fiat dealer
Current theory is the earlier versions over heat the dpf during regeneration causing the dpf internals to crack. Dpf is insanely expensive.

 

[MSjoberg]

Do get software update even if it means Fiat dealer
Current theory is the earlier versions over heat the dpf during regeneration causing the dpf internals to crack. Dpf is insanely expensive.

Is there any information available on what the regeneration temperature normally should be? For my 2018 with Comfortmatic, I can see in present and older MES logs that the average temperature of last regenerations has been 630 - 640 °C.
Software is still V 24, will try to get it updated this summer.

 

[jackwhoo]

Is there any information available on what the regeneration temperature normally should be? For my 2018 with Comfortmatic, I can see in present and older MES logs that the average temperature of last regenerations has been 630 - 640 °C.
Software is still V 24, will try to get it updated this summer.

If you wipe in inside of tail pipe with clean kitchen paper does the paper turn black or stay reasonably clean?
Do kitchen paper check and post photo- sometime who knows what to look for may give an opinion if your dog is cracked or not.

I do not know what peak or average regeneration temperature is.

Best
J

 

[MSjoberg]

If you wipe in inside of tail pipe with clean kitchen paper does the paper turn black or stay reasonably clean?
Do kitchen paper check and post photo- sometime who knows what to look for may give an opinion if your dog is cracked or not.

I do not know what peak or average regeneration temperature is.

Best
J

Thanks for your reply. I plan to do the ”wipe test” soon. I have the van parked in a garage away from home so can’t do it right now.
It has approx 32000 km/20000 M on the odometer, perhaps a small amount of soot should be expected then, even if the DPF is OK? If not, it’s efficiency would be remarkable (laymans view)

 

[jackwhoo]

Thanks for your reply. I plan to do the ”wipe test” soon. I have the van parked in a garage away from home so can’t do it right now.
It has approx 32000 km/20000 M on the odometer, perhaps a small amount of soot should be expected then, even if the DPF is OK? If not, it’s efficiency would be remarkable (laymans view)

A little bit not much.

When you have photo post it and ask @Fredastaire to look

 

[Fredastaire]

My advice is to get your van booked in at a Fiat dealer on Tuesday for the software update. A replacement DPF is £3400 plus vat plus fitting. I also recommend you read / skim read the 48 page main post for P0401. There are cases of repair bills at dealers of 7-10 thousand pounds because of DPF damage that's then compounded to blocked coolers and wrecked injectors.
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Please don't gamble with historic software.
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(If any other reader is wondering, I'm a victim of this fiasco so the information is first hand experience).

 

[MSjoberg]

Thank you. Yes, I am in the process of reading the 48 pages…
I did ask my Fiat workshop about software updates in general when the van was serviced last time (I did not know about these dual EGR issues then). I got the reply that when they connect their system to the OBD port for service/oil reset, it identifies the car and tells them if there are any applicable updates to install. So it seems strange that no updates have been made then. Could it be because my van is one of those with a VIN where some of the VIN string positions just shows zero, i.e. it starts ZFA2500000… and the system hence doesn’t realize what model it is? But I would have hoped the the staff was aware though

 

[jackwhoo]

No one can answer that....... other than the updates should definately have been done if it is official fiat service centre.

The full details are in the 48 page thread.

 

[Gravelrash]

Well, changed the MAP sensor and the boost solenoid, but still the same issue - po236. Runs fine until I get about 2 miles up the road and start accelerating out of town. Attached a graph of desired vs actual boost, if this can help? You can see where the engine light comes on and the turbo gets shut down.

 

[theoneandonly]

Nearest "trusted/ reccommended" fiat pro to deepest darkest lincolnshire is Hull.
Short version of 49 pagrs
Also shows how to get at MAP Sensor

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

Ps just come home from deepest darkest lincolnshire, Alford.

 

[Gravelrash]

Nearest "trusted/ reccommended" fiat pro to deepest darkest lincolnshire is Hull.
Short version of 49 pagrs
Also shows how to get at MAP Sensor

Ducato twin EGR Engine with P0401 Code (2016 to 2019)

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

Ps just come home from deepest darkest lincolnshire, Alford.

Yeah, I'm just up the road at Louth. Done the map sensor and solenoid. No chance of making it to Hull in limp mode. Noticed today, actually got two errors, the po236 and po238, and a canbus error on the body computer. Cleared them all, all back on a couple of miles later. Any chance the two are related?