Technical Panda 312. 1.3 multijet 2013 4x4

[John Richardson]

Hi all.
I have a question regarding fuel consumption.
I have a panda 4x4 mk 3 2013 with the 1.3 multijet diesel 75 bhp.
Sorry this is in Kilometres...
Last time I filled up the odo was at 129,700 km. The reported range was 600km and the average consumption was shown as 14.8
km / ltr.
Therefore, I expected to fill up at 130,300 km.
I maintained the average consumption rate at 14.5 to 14.9 but had to fill up at 130,000.
I've long thought that the car was thirsty.
Recently it has had sticking front brakes....which has been intermittent...or, so I thought !
We also have a panda Cross (2015 ) with the same engine but 80 bhp...we get 17 to 18 km / ltr from her.
Other than a slight, very slight, stutter on acceleration, usually going up hill, the car runs well and is powerful.
Could this poor consumption be down to sticky brakes ? If so why would the computer report such wildly incorrect fuel consumption.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[The Panda Nut]

These things show a range at fill up that they rarely achieve. Often my petrol Panda shows range 320. It continues to lead me on untill the range should still be 100 and then drops to 0! My car will do at least 60 miles with the fuel light on which suggests it comes on with about 1.6gallons in te tank (c.6.75 l) I would expect you to get 575 to 625km out of a tank but this would certainly see the fuel light on for the last 90Km. I have only run petrol 4x4 Pandas and they have been totally different in power, drivability and fuel consumption although both have been 0.9Turbo 85PS 4x4 . I have also noticed differences between makes of tyre. WInter tyres make a big difference to fuel consumption, I reckon 5mpg worse than the summer tyres my Panda Cross was supplied on. Brakes sticking is a Panda thing and yopu should strip these and clean them regularly top ensure you are not wasting fuel with binding brakes.

 

[John Richardson]

These things show a range at fill up that they rarely achieve. Often my petrol Panda shows range 320. It continues to lead me on untill the range should still be 100 and then drops to 0! My car will do at least 60 miles with the fuel light on which suggests it comes on with about 1.6gallons in te tank (c.6.75 l) I would expect you to get 575 to 625km out of a tank but this would certainly see the fuel light on for the last 90Km. I have only run petrol 4x4 Pandas and they have been totally different in power, drivability and fuel consumption although both have been 0.9Turbo 85PS 4x4 . I have also noticed differences between makes of tyre. WInter tyres make a big difference to fuel consumption, I reckon 5mpg worse than the summer tyres my Panda Cross was supplied on. Brakes sticking is a Panda thing and yopu should strip these and clean them regularly top ensure you are not wasting fuel with binding brakes.

Many thanks.
I know the range can be a bit if a fairy tale and I tend to ignore it until it sends up a low fuel warning or the light comes on.
But, having manually calculated the fuel consumption from the last fill up it some appear that the car is only achieveing 300 to 350 km per tank...
I live in Italy and I bought the car in Austria...where they like to use salt on the roads (alot, apparently)...the calipers are quite rusty, so suspect there is some brake binding going on...and, I'm running on Fulda all season tyres...still with plenty of life.
I will do as you suggest and clean or replace the calipers and pads...see if that helps.
The tyres will have to wait until they need replacing.
Many thanks for your thoughts.
John

 

[Bonefish Blues]

We're getting 52-53 mpg from ours (4.4L/100km) without problem.

 

[John Richardson]

You have a 1.3 multijet ?
I just switched over to mpg on the computer...couldn't figure it out in my head...bad, I know... anyway, it was 39.5 mpg... which is actually 14 km / ltr...

 

[Bonefish Blues]

You have a 1.3 multijet ?
I just switched over to mpg on the computer...couldn't figure it out in my head...bad, I know... anyway, it was 39.5 mpg... which is actually 14 km / ltr...

Yes. Yours must be broken, I think.

 

[John Richardson]

Yes. Yours must be broken, I think.

I think you might be right...
Brakes, possibly...be nice to think it's that simple...

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I think you might be right...
Brakes, possibly...be nice to think it's that simple...

Caliper sticking would be relatively easy to check because it (or they) would be excessively hot after driving, certainly if they were binding to the extent of affecting your fuel consumption to that degree.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Makesure you dont have a fuel leak. Check tank and pipes then injectors and the return pipes. Split injector feed pipes are not unknown on this engine.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I have a 2018 4x4 Panda (not the Cross version), with Euro 6 95hp engine. The computer shows I get around 55 miles per gallon average. (5.1litres per 100km or 19km per litre) On filling up it will show me I can drive around 400 miles.
I previously had a 2013 4x4 MultiJet with the 75 hp engine that routinely averaged 60-62 mpg and where once the range indicator showed 500 miles.
On the basis of these numbers, I’d say you have a problem Whether that is brakes binding, turbo failing, faulty fuel injection or otherwise, I can’t say…

 

[John Richardson]

Makesure you dont have a fuel leak. Check tank and pipes then injectors and the return pipes. Split injector feed pipes are not unknown on this engine.

OK...thanks.
There is no smell of diesel or any sign of a leak...but, I'll investigate this further.
The calipers are hot at the front from time to time after normal, level driving...sometimes red hot on the near side. Once they have cooled they're fine. I've only recently started to check this as I physically felt the brakes binding just last week...it seems the temperature ranges from untouchabley hot to tepid to cold...
So, there is definitely a problem with the brakes...what I'm not sure about is how frequently they stick and to what degree they effect the fuel consumption.
The Turbo was replaced 6 months ago...since then the exhaust has been quite smelly...no smoke...
My mechanic cleared the error code, or reset something, after fitting the turbo but, periodically it would blast out alot of white / grey smoke. Apparently, there are a total of three things that need to be reset after a turbo replacement. If they are not done the DPF tries to regenerate excessively....causing the smoke. After the mechanic cleared the other codes...it was fine, no smoke...just smelly... could this be something effecting the fuel consumption...some how

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

OK...thanks.
There is no smell of diesel or any sign of a leak...but, I'll investigate this further.
The calipers are hot at the front from time to time after normal, level driving...sometimes red hot on the near side. Once they have cooled they're fine. I've only recently started to check this as I physically felt the brakes binding just last week...it seems the temperature ranges from untouchabley hot to tepid to cold...
So, there is definitely a problem with the brakes...what I'm not sure about is how frequently they stick and to what degree they effect the fuel consumption.
The Turbo was replaced 6 months ago...since then the exhaust has been quite smelly...no smoke...
My mechanic cleared the error code, or reset something, after fitting the turbo but, periodically it would blast out alot of white / grey smoke. Apparently, there are a total of three things that need to be reset after a turbo replacement. If they are not done the DPF tries to regenerate excessively....causing the smoke. After the mechanic cleared the other codes...it was fine, no smoke...just smelly... could this be something effecting the fuel consumption...some how

You could be onto something with DPF regens - it does this by injecting an extra shot of diesel into the exhaust stroke (which burns off in the hot exhaust)

 

[John Richardson]

You could be onto something with DPF regens - it does this by injecting an extra shot of diesel into the exhaust stroke (which burns off in the hot exhaust)

Umm...it could still be trying to regenerate...

 

[The Panda Nut]

Any brakes can stick but it seems a Panda does it better than most. Jack it up and put in neutral and try rotqating the wheels by hand. This should be easy and you should not hear a lot of rubbing of pads on discs. Get the pads out one corner at a time, clean all the calipers and fittings with a wire brush and replace all pads and discs if possible . Work the calipers back and fore until they move without much pressure on the pedal. I use an old hammer with a steel handle (oval shaped) in place of the pad and by turning the hammer head the handle acts as a cam and moves the piston in wards turn it back and operate the pedal, Repeat many times until free. Check for leaks before reassembly, Bleed the brakes if the pedal is spongy. Be warned once a caliper has stuck its likely to do so again and new calipers would be the best option.

You need a diagnosticcheck with software like MES to see whether regeneration is happening. MES doesnt tell all in this department. I found out the dealer software gives more and more meaningful information on this.
I would want to check tht the egr valve is operating correctly as well.
You could also try a fuel cleaning additive / treatment. I have found these do seem to help reduce smoke and make the cars run better.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Any brakes can stick but it seems a Panda does it better than most. Jack it up and put in neutral and try rotqating the wheels by hand. This should be easy and you should not hear a lot of rubbing of pads on discs. Get the pads out one corner at a time, clean all the calipers and fittings with a wire brush and replace all pads and discs if possible . Work the calipers back and fore until they move without much pressure on the pedal. I use an old hammer with a steel handle (oval shaped) in place of the pad and by turning the hammer head the handle acts as a cam and moves the piston in wards turn it back and operate the pedal, Repeat many times until free. Check for leaks before reassembly, Bleed the brakes if the pedal is spongy. Be warned once a caliper has stuck its likely to do so again and new calipers would be the best option.

You need a diagnosticcheck with software like MES to see whether regeneration is happening. MES doesnt tell all in this department. I found out the dealer software gives more and more meaningful information on this.
I would want to check tht the egr valve is operating correctly as well.
You could also try a fuel cleaning additive / treatment. I have found these do seem to help reduce smoke and make the cars run better.

Sadly, owing to 'stick-tion' in the 4x4 system, its difficult to turn an individual wheel when jacked up on the 4x4 so you never really feel them spin freely.

I've still not experienced any issues with brakes binding on any of my four 4x4s... but @John Richardson gives a big clue that the front brakes are binding when he says they are very hot ('red hot'!!) after some drives. Mine occasionally are 'mildly warm' but never hot to that degree. I'd suggest (as described by @The Panda Nut above) giving them a good check over. Note that often if one is sticking hot happens on the 'back' side of the disc: the bit you can't see by looking through the wheel.

 

[John Richardson]

Great advice...I'll check that. Many thanks.
I've also never had problems with sticking brakes. We also have a 2015 1.3 Panda Cross...had it from new ...the only brake issue was excessively rusted rear disks...
That was very odd..one disk had completely delaminated....mechanic thought it was a faulty disk....

 

[John Richardson]

Any brakes can stick but it seems a Panda does it better than most. Jack it up and put in neutral and try rotqating the wheels by hand. This should be easy and you should not hear a lot of rubbing of pads on discs. Get the pads out one corner at a time, clean all the calipers and fittings with a wire brush and replace all pads and discs if possible . Work the calipers back and fore until they move without much pressure on the pedal. I use an old hammer with a steel handle (oval shaped) in place of the pad and by turning the hammer head the handle acts as a cam and moves the piston in wards turn it back and operate the pedal, Repeat many times until free. Check for leaks before reassembly, Bleed the brakes if the pedal is spongy. Be warned once a caliper has stuck its likely to do so again and new calipers would be the best option.

You need a diagnosticcheck with software like MES to see whether regeneration is happening. MES doesnt tell all in this department. I found out the dealer software gives more and more meaningful information on this.
I would want to check tht the egr valve is operating correctly as well.
You could also try a fuel cleaning additive / treatment. I have found these do seem to help reduce smoke and make the cars run better.

OK...thanks.
That's helpful. I'll get the car plugged in...
Maybe the EGR is playing up...
Could you recommend a good cleaning additive ?

 

[The Panda Nut]

OK...thanks.
That's helpful. I'll get the car plugged in...
Maybe the EGR is playing up...
Could you recommend a good cleaning additive ?

I bought some from Halfords. You can get from eBay or just google EGR cleaner. I have seen a video on the net of use of brake cleaner. I believe we are trying to shift gunk and carbon build u and its not easy to do without some mechanical action. I will say do be careful!!!!! Short squirts half a second at a time. I thought I had destroyed my engine after giving it a great big burst. Some sort of lockup caused by altered combustion stopped the engine dead at 2000 rpm!!! Little sqiuirts affect the running but much less and you can judge how mucjh you can spray in one go from there, I was advised with my Golf by an old hand to use redex / wynns additive on a very regular basis to keep things clean. I stopped doing it and had to replace the EGR on my Bravo at 40000 miles. Re started using redex diesel cleaning additive and never had another issue in 66000 miles till it was sold. I believe its beneficial stuff I use it regularly even in the petrol engines as it should help prevent injectors gumming up. with petrol additives you get the added benefit of things to combat the negative side of ethanol in the fuel. If you have egr issues, I found Fiat could fit a new EGR for less than the cost of the parts from eBay or motor factors so check prices carefully.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Sadly, owing to 'stick-tion' in the 4x4 system, its difficult to turn an individual wheel when jacked up on the 4x4 so you never really feel them spin freely.

I've still not experienced any issues with brakes binding on any of my four 4x4s... but @John Richardson gives a big clue that the front brakes are binding when he says they are very hot ('red hot'!!) after some drives. Mine occasionally are 'mildly warm' but never hot to that degree. I'd suggest (as described by @The Panda Nut above) giving them a good check over. Note that often if one is sticking hot happens on the 'back' side of the disc: the bit you can't see by looking through the wheel.

I am corrected about rotating wheels i have not yet tried to do this on a 4x4.

 

[John Richardson]

I bought some from Halfords. You can get from eBay or just google EGR cleaner. I have seen a video on the net of use of brake cleaner. I believe we are trying to shift gunk and carbon build u and its not easy to do without some mechanical action. I will say do be careful!!!!! Short squirts half a second at a time. I thought I had destroyed my engine after giving it a great big burst. Some sort of lockup caused by altered combustion stopped the engine dead at 2000 rpm!!! Little sqiuirts affect the running but much less and you can judge how mucjh you can spray in one go from there, I was advised with my Golf by an old hand to use redex / wynns additive on a very regular basis to keep things clean. I stopped doing it and had to replace the EGR on my Bravo at 40000 miles. Re started using redex diesel cleaning additive and never had another issue in 66000 miles till it was sold. I believe its beneficial stuff I use it regularly even in the petrol engines as it should help prevent injectors gumming up. with petrol additives you get the added benefit of things to combat the negative side of ethanol in the fuel. If you have egr issues, I found Fiat could fit a new EGR for less than the cost of the parts from eBay or motor factors so check prices carefully.

OK. This is very intesting...I'll have to start using these cleaners.
So many people tell me that they are not effective...could be that it's because they use them one time only. So, regular use could be the key.
Thanks for this...very helpful.