Opinions on this trolley jack?

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Opinions on this trolley jack?

I struggling to get some rusty bolts out of the sway bar connector. The head came off the bolt and i've drilled it but still can't get it out. I don't really want to carry on drilling and destroy the thread but may have to? If i'm going to do that should i angle grind it off? or buy some new connectors if I can find them?

What do you think?

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I struggling to get some rusty bolts out of the sway bar connector. The head came off the bolt and i've drilled it but still can't get it out. I don't really want to carry on drilling and destroy the thread but may have to? If i'm going to do that should i angle grind it off? or buy some new connectors if I can find them?

What do you think?

View attachment 449527

View attachment 449528
I would have said drill it out nearly all the way then use a good extractor, or maybe break off the last bits of the old bolt and clean the threads out with the correct size tap , but I see you are slightly off centre with the pilot hole so makes life harder.
Still all part of the learning curve;)
It's usually quite hard to remove the captive nut without more damage, though not impossible.
At least it is off the car so easier to work on in a vice.
 
I would have said drill it out nearly all the way then use a good extractor, or maybe break off the last bits of the old bolt and clean the threads out with the correct size tap , but I see you are slightly off centre with the pilot hole so makes life harder.
Still all part of the learning curve;)
It's usually quite hard to remove the captive nut without more damage, though not impossible.
At least it is off the car so easier to work on in a vice.
Drilling produced sheat and vibration that can help to break things free. Also give them an overnight bath in a jar full off penetrating fluid, or parrafin / lamp oil, or similar as well
 
So i should carry on drilling, i'd quite like a vice...

I was hoping for a quicker solution because I have another rusty bolt to remove from the other connector, oh well.. :)
Trying to drill accurately into something like this without a vice is neigh on impossible. Even something like a workmate workbench would be better than nothing. In fact trying to find the centre of a threaded bolt like this is difficult anyway because the thread depth "hiding" in the component throws your eye off seeing the exact centre.

I think you have to continue drilling but try to true & centre the hole. It may be that if you heat it up and cool it rapidly (douse in water) and repeat a few times as well as applying releasing fluid that could help. Don't take it up to red heat as these will be made from steel with quite a high carbon content so heating to red heat and cooling rapidly may harden them which will make drilling more difficult.

I'm in the fortunate position of having an air hammer so I'd try Vibroshocking it - I'm very keen on vibroshocking and have had some considerable success with it. However you need an air hammer and a fairly "meaty" compressor so I'll say no more.

Did you centre punch the hole position before starting to drill? Doing this helps a lot with getting the hole centred as it eliminates drill wander as you start.
 
Drilling produced sheat and vibration that can help to break things free. Also give them an overnight bath in a jar full off penetrating fluid, or parrafin / lamp oil, or similar as well

An overnight bath is worth looking into, I'll see what i've got.

Trying to drill accurately into something like this without a vice is neigh on impossible. Even something like a workmate workbench would be better than nothing. In fact trying to find the centre of a threaded bolt like this is difficult anyway because the thread depth "hiding" in the component throws your eye off seeing the exact centre.

I think you have to continue drilling but try to true & centre the hole. It may be that if you heat it up and cool it rapidly (douse in water) and repeat a few times as well as applying releasing fluid that could help. Don't take it up to red heat as these will be made from steel with quite a high carbon content so heating to red heat and cooling rapidly may harden them which will make drilling more difficult.

I'm in the fortunate position of having an air hammer so I'd try Vibroshocking it - I'm very keen on vibroshocking and have had some considerable success with it. However you need an air hammer and a fairly "meaty" compressor so I'll say no more.

Did you centre punch the hole position before starting to drill? Doing this helps a lot with getting the hole centred as it eliminates drill wander as you start.
I do have a workmate bench. I'd not thought of using it until you mentioned it, so good spot there.

The hole started in the centre, it progressively wandered after that. I probably don't have to put a new thread in the connector. The connector has the thread built in but I could add a nut myself.

I've now learnt at which point the head of a bolt is going to shear off, its an odd sort of stretching that is easy to remember.
 
You can get stud extractor that have a rough left hand thread. You screw these in anti clockwise, into the hole you drill out they have a square head and can give you a second chance . No shame in whats happened it looks really rusted in and these things can put up a hell of a fight. I would try and get new brackets as previous experience is that they are often not expensive. You are doing one of the many awkward jobs I needed to sort on our Panda 169.. I chickened out and px'd it, so good on you.
 
You can get stud extractor that have a rough left hand thread. You screw these in anti clockwise, into the hole you drill out they have a square head and can give you a second chance . No shame in whats happened it looks really rusted in and these things can put up a hell of a fight. I would try and get new brackets as previous experience is that they are often not expensive. You are doing one of the many awkward jobs I needed to sort on our Panda 169.. I chickened out and px'd it, so good on you.

I've been looking for new brackets but haven't so far found any. I may not have been using the right search term. Failing that I could butcher the nuts, slowly and painfully (for me) lol.

I was considering getting another GP or EVO and selling this car, but the missus likes this one. Also I just thought it was time to learn more car things, my confidence and ability is up since I started the subframe so I'm now thinking I could probably change a clutch or gearbox should I ever need to.
 
I've now learnt at which point the head of a bolt is going to shear off, its an odd sort of stretching that is easy to remember.
Now you're really starting to learn useful stuff. Getting "the feel" for what a fixing feels like just before it shears and also how tight is "proper tight" is absolutely invaluable. You'll still break things, we all do, but you'll break a lot less of them!
You can get stud extractor that have a rough left hand thread. You screw these in anti clockwise, into the hole you drill out they have a square head and can give you a second chance . No shame in whats happened it looks really rusted in and these things can put up a hell of a fight. I would try and get new brackets as previous experience is that they are often not expensive. You are doing one of the many awkward jobs I needed to sort on our Panda 169.. I chickened out and px'd it, so good on you.
Stud extractors? useful but you really need to be careful with them because they are made from very very "hard" metal. If you snap one off in the hole then life gets a whole lot more complicated because to all intents and purposes the amateur driveway grease monkey can't do much about removing the broken bit

They come in two types - as far as I know? reverse helix or square. Come to think of it I've never seen one for a left hand thread? Suppose they must exist? Anyway, here's my little "pick and mix" selection:

P1110916.JPG


taking a closer look at the two types:

P1110917.JPG


The top one is, obviously, of the square type. Look closely and you can see it has a groove down one side? to use it you drill a suitable size hole down the centre of the broken bolt/stud and insert the tool small end first. Then give it a few sharp taps with a hammer so the flutes bite into the sides of the hole and gently turn the square top anticlockwise with a tap wrench, spanner, or other suitable tool.

The lower one is a reverse helix type. The preparation is similar in that you drill a suitable size hole - both my sets of these eezi outs, as they are commonly called, have a suggested drill size stamped on their shanks - and then insert the "pointy end" of the tool into the hole. However, with the reverse helix type you only need to tap them quite lightly as they well wind themselves in with their helical faces as you start to turn them. Unfortunately this can cause a problem with this type because the tighter the broken stud is the further the tool will wind itself into the hole and, because it's a tapered tool, the further it winds itself into the hole the more it will force the stud to expand and lock itself even tighter into the hole! For this reason I prefer the American square shank type.

If the broken stud is very tight in it's hole it's quite possible to snap the tool off in the hole and that's not funny. I tend to pay a lot of attention to how it feels as I'm applying force to it. I don't tend to apply just one increasing effort but rather I "nudge" it a little at a time, increasing the force each time until the tool starts to feel "springy" - like as if it's a torsion bar. I do risk a bit of "springyness action" but if it doesn't shift I go no further because past experience has proved to me it's probably going to snap off. and this happens with both types of tool.

I find them of limited use. Yes there is the odd occasion when circumstances conspire to let them work really well but I don't use them often and, for me, they are a bit of a luxury. By the way, if you're going to buy a set then please don't buy a "cheap" set. The cheaper ones are often made from high carbon steel, very hard so bites into the stud well but VERY brittle so really easy to snap. Better sets are made from tool steel which will withstand more abuse before snapping but cost quite a lot more.
 
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I think I remember what that entails, but I could do with a refresher course! ;)
Don't look at me!!!:ROFLMAO:

Regarding the stud extractors, I prefer these made by Rothenburger and Blue Point etc. Parallel fluted ones for the reasons you have already mentioned, although looking at my sets you can see these snap also.:ROFLMAO:
 

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Don't look at me!!!:ROFLMAO:

Regarding the stud extractors, I prefer these made by Rothenburger and Blue Point etc. Parallel fluted ones for the reasons you have already mentioned, although looking at my sets you can see these snap also.:ROFLMAO:
My reverse helix ones are Dormer, I have a number of their drills too and it's a make I hold in high regard. I described the other type as "square" but I like your "parallel fluted" better. Mine I bought in a wee tool store in Maryland when we were over visiting my daughter there. Mrs J, daughter and granddaughter had gone shopping in one of those monster sized malls they have over there. I'd "chummed" them along just to get out of the house but three women in full on shopping mode was just too much for me so I wandered off and found this lovely wee tool store on the edge of the shopping complex. From the look of it I don't think it was part of the shopping development, probably been there for years. Anyway it was run by a lovely old chap and we chatted on about tools etc for quite a while. His background was more machine shop than vehicles and he produced these eezi outs in a plastic bag. Told me they were really good quality and he buys them in bulk then bags sets up for selling on. I'd just got such good "vibes" off him while we were chatting that I decided to buy them and I've not regretted it - haven't broken one yet. Don't know to this day what brand they are, but probably American as back then the stuff from the far east was viewed with great suspicion in the US and they are quite patriotic about buying home made goods.

"Looking at my sets you can see these snap also" made me smile. It took me back to when I was a trainer and students would come up to me holding a broken tool of some sort. No, it didn't break son, it's an inanimate object, You broke it! I became quite well known for saying this and they took great delight in chastising me with it whenever a situation arose which might be construed as me abusing a tool!
 
My reverse helix ones are Dormer, I have a number of their drills too and it's a make I hold in high regard. I described the other type as "square" but I like your "parallel fluted" better. Mine I bought in a wee tool store in Maryland when we were over visiting my daughter there. Mrs J, daughter and granddaughter had gone shopping in one of those monster sized malls they have over there. I'd "chummed" them along just to get out of the house but three women in full on shopping mode was just too much for me so I wandered off and found this lovely wee tool store on the edge of the shopping complex. From the look of it I don't think it was part of the shopping development, probably been there for years. Anyway it was run by a lovely old chap and we chatted on about tools etc for quite a while. His background was more machine shop than vehicles and he produced these eezi outs in a plastic bag. Told me they were really good quality and he buys them in bulk then bags sets up for selling on. I'd just got such good "vibes" off him while we were chatting that I decided to buy them and I've not regretted it - haven't broken one yet. Don't know to this day what brand they are, but probably American as back then the stuff from the far east was viewed with great suspicion in the US and they are quite patriotic about buying home made goods.

"Looking at my sets you can see these snap also" made me smile. It took me back to when I was a trainer and students would come up to me holding a broken tool of some sort. No, it didn't break son, it's an inanimate object, You broke it! I became quite well known for saying this and they took great delight in chastising me with it whenever a situation arose which might be construed as me abusing a tool!
I agree older American tools were quality, like older British, but now people tend to only buy on price;(
In my defense as the sets were second hand I didn't break the majority, maybe just one or two in extreme circumstances after heat and oil had no success and usually fixing someone else's "work";)
 
The nearest I can find to a universal stabiliser mount bracket is the one below. But it looks like its for a 22mm sway bar and mine is 18mm.


There isn't an ePER number given for my bracket alone and I can only guess you have to buy a whole sway bar to get the unique looking Fiat brackets.
 
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I agree older American tools were quality, like older British, but now people tend to only buy on price;(
In my defense as the sets were second hand I didn't break the majority, maybe just one or two in extreme circumstances after heat and oil had no success and usually fixing someone else's "work";)
Wasn't trying to lay a "guilt trip" on you Mike. I've broken my own fare share of stuff over the years, especially when I was young and ignorant!

Yup, trying to sort out someone else's mangled mess is possibly the most "agro" jobs. I quite admire folk who, despite lacking experience, have a go. But the problem for them is that they have no idea what the likely problems are they may encounter so can end up with an immobile vehicle they can't fix. Against my better judgement I got involved in one a few years ago. Where I live it's very nice and we all help each other and are pretty friendly. I looked out my front window one day to see the chap - a chef - who lives in the bottom flat of the block opposite us, taking the back wheel off his car with it balanced on the car's "suicide" jack. Poor chap I thought, he must have a puncture. I went into the kitchen to make a cup of tea and when I came back into the living room he was lying under the back of the car hauling on a spanner and the car was visibly "wobbling" under his efforts. No wheel chocks or anything stabilizing it that I could see. That car's going to fall off the jack I thought so I quickly went over to him and warned him of the possibility. He hadn't given it a moment's thought. Turned out he was trying to change a rear shocker which had failed MOT. I offered him the use of one of my trolley jacks and, in the end, we moved the car onto my run off, so he wasn't working in the road, and got a couple of my axle stands under it too. He was determined to do the job himself and started "attacking" the lower mounting with an open ended spanner. Before I could stop him he'd rounded off two of the corners. Lending him a power bar with a suitable six point socket sorted that out. Then I had to lend him a torx type socket for the top mount. I was interested to see him then produce a used shocker - genuine Ford part he was keen to tell me - which he'd bought off the internet because he didn't trust non genuine parts! I started having a conversation with him about using an unknown item like the used shocker and OE parts might have been better, but he wasn't having it, so I left him to it. Looked out some time later and he was tightening the bottom mount up using the full force available with my power bar. Worried he was going to strip the thread or snap the mount, I rushed out and intervened. He didn't know about leaving the nut just finger tight until the suspension was back at normal ride height either. So, this very nice and enthusiastic chap could easily have caused mayhem to the vehicle or even killed himself due to lack of knowledge and guidance. Had he stripped the thread or broken the stud on that bottom mount that would have been "fun" to sort out.
 
Now you're really starting to learn useful stuff. Getting "the feel" for what a fixing feels like just before it shears and also how tight is "proper tight" is absolutely invaluable. You'll still break things, we all do, but you'll break a lot less of them!

Stud extractors? useful but you really need to be careful with them because they are made from very very "hard" metal. If you snap one off in the hole then life gets a whole lot more complicated because to all intents and purposes the amateur driveway grease monkey can't do much about removing the broken bit

They come in two types - as far as I know? reverse helix or square. Come to think of it I've never seen one for a left hand thread? Suppose they must exist? Anyway, here's my little "pick and mix" selection:

View attachment 449562

taking a closer look at the two types:

View attachment 449563

The top one is, obviously, of the square type. Look closely and you can see it has a groove down one side? to use it you drill a suitable size hole down the centre of the broken bolt/stud and insert the tool small end first. Then give it a few sharp taps with a hammer so the flutes bite into the sides of the hole and gently turn the square top anticlockwise with a tap wrench, spanner, or other suitable tool.

The lower one is a reverse helix type. The preparation is similar in that you drill a suitable size hole - both my sets of these eezi outs, as they are commonly called, have a suggested drill size stamped on their shanks - and then insert the "pointy end" of the tool into the hole. However, with the reverse helix type you only need to tap them quite lightly as they well wind themselves in with their helical faces as you start to turn them. Unfortunately this can cause a problem with this type because the tighter the broken stud is the further the tool will wind itself into the hole and, because it's a tapered tool, the further it winds itself into the hole the more it will force the stud to expand and lock itself even tighter into the hole! For this reason I prefer the American square shank type.

If the broken stud is very tight in it's hole it's quite possible to snap the tool off in the hole and that's not funny. I tend to pay a lot of attention to how it feels as I'm applying force to it. I don't tend to apply just one increasing effort but rather I "nudge" it a little at a time, increasing the force each time until the tool starts to feel "springy" - like as if it's a torsion bar. I do risk a bit of "springyness action" but if it doesn't shift I go no further because past experience has proved to me it's probably going to snap off. and this happens with both types of tool.

I find them of limited use. Yes there is the odd occasion when circumstances conspire to let them work really well but I don't use them often and, for me, they are a bit of a luxury. By the way, if you're going to buy a set then please don't buy a "cheap" set. The cheaper ones are often made from high carbon steel, very hard so bites into the stud well but VERY brittle so really easy to snap. Better sets are made from tool steel which will withstand more abuse before snapping but cost quite a lot more.
I agree with all of this. I broke quite a few years ago, putting sockets on the end and over doing it on the power. SO very good advice. I have found as you, thay if you break the tool you are stuffed. If you get a good hole in the dead centre of the stud. and then increase the drill size until most of the stud is gone then I feel they have a place in the armoury. Thankyou for you excellent clarification and pics. Sound advice as usual!
 
I've tried to use stud extractors of various sorts over the years, almost always unsuccessful. If the bolt is seized in there tight enough to shear the head off, an extractor is unlikely to win.
The remaining bolt appears to be below the face of the bracket. If you can find a good drill that fits snugly in the bracket hole, it will keep it central, at least until it makes a good pilot hole.
Alternatively, drill through with th current drill size. Then go up one size at a time, until close to meeting the captive nut threads. At that time, the remains of the bolt will be less than a full circle, and may well come out as the tension is released.
 
Wasn't trying to lay a "guilt trip" on you Mike. I've broken my own fare share of stuff over the years, especially when I was young and ignorant!

Yup, trying to sort out someone else's mangled mess is possibly the most "agro" jobs. I quite admire folk who, despite lacking experience, have a go. But the problem for them is that they have no idea what the likely problems are they may encounter so can end up with an immobile vehicle they can't fix. Against my better judgement I got involved in one a few years ago. Where I live it's very nice and we all help each other and are pretty friendly. I looked out my front window one day to see the chap - a chef - who lives in the bottom flat of the block opposite us, taking the back wheel off his car with it balanced on the car's "suicide" jack. Poor chap I thought, he must have a puncture. I went into the kitchen to make a cup of tea and when I came back into the living room he was lying under the back of the car hauling on a spanner and the car was visibly "wobbling" under his efforts. No wheel chocks or anything stabilizing it that I could see. That car's going to fall off the jack I thought so I quickly went over to him and warned him of the possibility. He hadn't given it a moment's thought. Turned out he was trying to change a rear shocker which had failed MOT. I offered him the use of one of my trolley jacks and, in the end, we moved the car onto my run off, so he wasn't working in the road, and got a couple of my axle stands under it too. He was determined to do the job himself and started "attacking" the lower mounting with an open ended spanner. Before I could stop him he'd rounded off two of the corners. Lending him a power bar with a suitable six point socket sorted that out. Then I had to lend him a torx type socket for the top mount. I was interested to see him then produce a used shocker - genuine Ford part he was keen to tell me - which he'd bought off the internet because he didn't trust non genuine parts! I started having a conversation with him about using an unknown item like the used shocker and OE parts might have been better, but he wasn't having it, so I left him to it. Looked out some time later and he was tightening the bottom mount up using the full force available with my power bar. Worried he was going to strip the thread or snap the mount, I rushed out and intervened. He didn't know about leaving the nut just finger tight until the suspension was back at normal ride height either. So, this very nice and enthusiastic chap could easily have caused mayhem to the vehicle or even killed himself due to lack of knowledge and guidance. Had he stripped the thread or broken the stud on that bottom mount that would have been "fun" to sort out.
:) No offense taken, after all the years in the motor trade we have learnt "don't give it if you can't take it" . It's all a laugh:) Though only a few years behind you, so young?:)
I have just unloaded another Fiat Doblo down my drive, so officially out of space now;) Two Fiat Doblos, one Doblo/Vauxhall Combo, one Fiat Scudo and one Skoda Scout 4x4
Keep looking into my garage but can't see how to rearrange it to get any more space.
 
I've tried to use stud extractors of various sorts over the years, almost always unsuccessful. If the bolt is seized in there tight enough to shear the head off, an extractor is unlikely to win.
Couldn't have put it better - extractors are not a "magic bullet"
The remaining bolt appears to be below the face of the bracket. If you can find a good drill that fits snugly in the bracket hole, it will keep it central, at least until it makes a good pilot hole.
Alternatively, drill through with th current drill size. Then go up one size at a time, until close to meeting the captive nut threads. At that time, the remains of the bolt will be less than a full circle, and may well come out as the tension is released.
Or you might get in there with a narrow pointed tool - like a slim centre punch? - and be able to chase the remains round and out.
 
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