Fidgit said:
i hardly get any every night
i'm going to prosecute my girlfriend for a lack of sexual harrassment.
MY OH is being done for Sexual Harrassment!
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MY OH is being done for Sexual Harrassment!
i hardly get any every night
i'm going to prosecute my girlfriend for a lack of sexual harrassment.
centaur said:
I don't mean "I'm sorry for sexually Harassing you" I mean an "I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way"
Can't go wrong with that because you have said you didn't do what you were accused of and if they so "NO IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE" you say back "Saying hello is inappropriate? I think you need a psyciatrist.. or Voodoo."
Trancendental said:
I see your point, mate, but in this particular environment, an apology is taken as admission of your accused said actions.
Otherwise, I do agree with you.
Fidgit said:He spoke to someone again today at work and they said it is most likely he will get a written warning. They said it is not in the company's best interests to not do anything as there may be comebck from the accuser, but if they sack him, they will get a **** hot pile of stinking court action comeback from us!
He's asleep right now and I don't want to wake him. Neither of us hardly got any lastnight. Fingers crossed for 9am tomorrow morning........
Good vibes people please!!
No, no, no! :bang: Going into this without any representation is so wrong.
He must not attend this meeting without someone who knows what they are talking about legally.
Ah well, I have tried my hardest to advise you as best as I can. The rest is upto you and him.
You can only take the horse to the trough.....:bang:
Agreed - and why the heck should he accept a written warning for something he didn't do..?!?!centaur said:No, no, no! :bang: Going into this without any representation is so wrong.
He must not attend this meeting without someone who knows what they are talking about legally.
Ah well, I have tried my hardest to advise you as best as I can. The rest is upto you and him.
You can only take the horse to the trough.....:bang:
Fidgit said:He spoke to someone again today at work and they said it is most likely he will get a written warning. They said it is not in the company's best interests to not do anything as there may be comebck from the accuser, but if they sack him, they will get a **** hot pile of stinking court action comeback from us!
He's asleep right now and I don't want to wake him. Neither of us hardly got any lastnight. Fingers crossed for 9am tomorrow morning........
Good vibes people please!!
Fidgit said:
Am confused
How can they go through a disciplinary tomorrow at 9 am when the people needed for the investigations are away until the 4th January??
Something is very wrong somewhere with all of this....
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Oh yeah, He has every right to perspone any Interviews until he has a companion present.
Everything should be recorded.
Anyone who was involved is not allowed to take notes.
Notes must be taken/Interview must be recorded somehow and he must sign that all notes taken are accurate and that the words that left his mouth and others mouths are indeed the words that were said in the interview.
Providing his diciplinary procedure is the same as ours.
Everything should be recorded.
Anyone who was involved is not allowed to take notes.
Notes must be taken/Interview must be recorded somehow and he must sign that all notes taken are accurate and that the words that left his mouth and others mouths are indeed the words that were said in the interview.
Providing his diciplinary procedure is the same as ours.
OP
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Fidgit
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centaur said:Am confused
How can they go through a disciplinary tomorrow at 9 am when the people needed for the investigations are away until the 4th January??
Something is very wrong somewhere with all of this....
They cannot investigate his grievance he has put in against his company for the way he has been treated until January as the people who were dealing with the investigation first time around are away.
He went to the meeting this morning, despite me telling him to potpone it and speak to the CAB or the union I just signed him up for.
He has been given a final written warning which stays on his record for a year and has kept his job. The girl who accused him of this is happy with the outcome so there will be no more comeback from her. We are just relieved he still has a job.
He is going to speak to his union as he has 10 days to appeal the warning. I said how could they give him a final warning if he has never had any warnings before this? He did ask for it to state at th bottom of the warning that the claim was 'not proven' but they said they could not do this as he has admitted touching her. Hmmm. I don;t think that is right, so we are going to appeal.
Thanks for all your advice centaur. You have been really helpful. I know it must of been frustrating as he didn't get legal advice etc. I think he just wanted to get it all over with and see what to do after they had made a decision. I think they will pap themselves when they hear from Amicus though.........
Thanks again to everyone. It reall helps beig able to vent somewhere. At least we know we can enjoy christmas this year.
Happy Christmas everyone!!!
You're welcome for what little I had to offer.
I don't wish to be a doomsayer, but you need to be aware of the implications of this disciplinary outcome.
The fact that he has accepted a final written warning (which is possible if gross misconduct is found), means he has admitted his actions were wrong, and that her claims were valid. If he had done nothing wrong (as is the case, I am sure) then he should have rejected any form of disciplinary action against him. Hence why he needed someone with a legal knowledge base to represent him. Instead he was the prodigal lamb to the slaughter in that meeting.
I am sure she is extremely happy with the outcome - especially if he has sought legal advice from a solicitor. Her solicitor could now, in theory, issue a sexual assault case against your OH, and use the outcome of this disciplinary as evidence against him - very strong evidence as it is tantamount to admission of guilt. In other words, a confession.
I fear if this does happen, then your OH has only experienced the tip of the iceberg.
Again, I don't wish to scare or upset you, but I have seen this course of action quite a lot in my past working experience, and you must be made aware of what COULD happen.
I wish you all the best with this, and hope that it proves to be the end of this most unfortunate situation.
I don't wish to be a doomsayer, but you need to be aware of the implications of this disciplinary outcome.
The fact that he has accepted a final written warning (which is possible if gross misconduct is found), means he has admitted his actions were wrong, and that her claims were valid. If he had done nothing wrong (as is the case, I am sure) then he should have rejected any form of disciplinary action against him. Hence why he needed someone with a legal knowledge base to represent him. Instead he was the prodigal lamb to the slaughter in that meeting.
I am sure she is extremely happy with the outcome - especially if he has sought legal advice from a solicitor. Her solicitor could now, in theory, issue a sexual assault case against your OH, and use the outcome of this disciplinary as evidence against him - very strong evidence as it is tantamount to admission of guilt. In other words, a confession.
I fear if this does happen, then your OH has only experienced the tip of the iceberg.
Again, I don't wish to scare or upset you, but I have seen this course of action quite a lot in my past working experience, and you must be made aware of what COULD happen.
I wish you all the best with this, and hope that it proves to be the end of this most unfortunate situation.
These are the guidelines on sexual harrassment. I am no expert but I think if you just touch somebody on the back then it is difficult to claim it was sexual harassment unless it was done on a regular basis. I would definitely get some advice though as it is not nice to have this on your record, even if it is only for a year.
From Equal Opportunity Commission:
Definition of sexual harassment relevant to incidents that took place on or after 1 October 2005
There are two types of sexual harassment
Unwanted conduct on the grounds of your sex:
You must be able to show that the treatment is because you are a woman (or a man). An example of this could be if you are being bullied at work and the harasser would not treat somebody of the opposite sex in this way. The conduct does not have to be of a sexual nature for this form of harassment.
The conduct must be done with the purpose of, or have the effect of, violating your dignity, or of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for you.
OR
Unwanted physical, verbal or non-verbal conduct of a sexual nature:
If the conduct is of a sexual nature, this is unlawful in itself and you do not have to compare yourself to how somebody of the opposite sex would be treated. This could include:
Comments about the way you look which you find demeaning
Indecent remarks
Questions about your sex life
Sexual demands by a member of your own or the opposite sex
(Incidents involving touching and other physical threats are criminal offences and should also be reported to the police).
Again, the conduct must be done with the purpose of, or have the effect of, violating your dignity, or of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for you.
You will also have a claim for harassment if your employer treats you less favourably because you have rejected, or submitted to, either form of harassment described above.
Sexual harassment is against the law
Women and men have a right not to be subjected to sexual harassment at work.
The Sex Discrimination Act (SDA) makes it unlawful for employers in Great Britain to subject a woman (or man) to sexual harassment. It is also unlawful to harass someone because they intend to undergo, are undergoing, or have undergone gender reassignment.
Sexual harassment itself is prohibited by the SDA but in many instances it will be accompanied by other forms of unfavourable treatment such as not being recruited, criticism of work, lack of promotion, enforced transfer and ill health or dismissal. (See also general less favourable treatment)
From Equal Opportunity Commission:
Definition of sexual harassment relevant to incidents that took place on or after 1 October 2005
There are two types of sexual harassment
Unwanted conduct on the grounds of your sex:
You must be able to show that the treatment is because you are a woman (or a man). An example of this could be if you are being bullied at work and the harasser would not treat somebody of the opposite sex in this way. The conduct does not have to be of a sexual nature for this form of harassment.
The conduct must be done with the purpose of, or have the effect of, violating your dignity, or of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for you.
OR
Unwanted physical, verbal or non-verbal conduct of a sexual nature:
If the conduct is of a sexual nature, this is unlawful in itself and you do not have to compare yourself to how somebody of the opposite sex would be treated. This could include:
Comments about the way you look which you find demeaning
Indecent remarks
Questions about your sex life
Sexual demands by a member of your own or the opposite sex
(Incidents involving touching and other physical threats are criminal offences and should also be reported to the police).
Again, the conduct must be done with the purpose of, or have the effect of, violating your dignity, or of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for you.
You will also have a claim for harassment if your employer treats you less favourably because you have rejected, or submitted to, either form of harassment described above.
Sexual harassment is against the law
Women and men have a right not to be subjected to sexual harassment at work.
The Sex Discrimination Act (SDA) makes it unlawful for employers in Great Britain to subject a woman (or man) to sexual harassment. It is also unlawful to harass someone because they intend to undergo, are undergoing, or have undergone gender reassignment.
Sexual harassment itself is prohibited by the SDA but in many instances it will be accompanied by other forms of unfavourable treatment such as not being recruited, criticism of work, lack of promotion, enforced transfer and ill health or dismissal. (See also general less favourable treatment)
Spot on, poggy.
But at this stage for him it is, to a certain extent, closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, as the disciplinary has taken place with actions and punishments already decided.
It remains to be seen what happens from now on.....
But at this stage for him it is, to a certain extent, closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, as the disciplinary has taken place with actions and punishments already decided.
It remains to be seen what happens from now on.....
I'd have resigned rather than take a final written warning, especially for something I'd not done. Surely the company should realise it's gone about this in a very bad way, leaving itself open for a serious legal argument from the union. Saying it wouldn't do nothing incase the accuser sued them.. makes me feel the company are scared of her.
As for touching her back being sexual harrasment - I used to work in a nighclub bar, bar-towel whippings and pouring ice down t-shirts was a regular occourance. Nothing sexual but a damn sight more than a friendly pat on the back.
Stupid HR rules, bet a 'team hug' is a grey area.
As for touching her back being sexual harrasment - I used to work in a nighclub bar, bar-towel whippings and pouring ice down t-shirts was a regular occourance. Nothing sexual but a damn sight more than a friendly pat on the back.
Stupid HR rules, bet a 'team hug' is a grey area.
Sorry to sound negative but i would not have accepted that written warning. Everthing seems so rushed and if what he says is true, she has gone way OTT.
Reject that written warning.
In my office, I see behaviour like posted on this thread, but I dont partake in this as it isnt me full stop, and I dont want to do to someone what I wouldnt want doing to me.
However if a girl put their hand on my back and said hello normally, I wouldnt see that as sexual, unless she started to stroke my back as she touched me and said hello provocatively. The first bit I wouldnt have a problem with, the second would be an issue.
Find out where she lives and post dog **** to her
Reject that written warning.
In my office, I see behaviour like posted on this thread, but I dont partake in this as it isnt me full stop, and I dont want to do to someone what I wouldnt want doing to me.
However if a girl put their hand on my back and said hello normally, I wouldnt see that as sexual, unless she started to stroke my back as she touched me and said hello provocatively. The first bit I wouldnt have a problem with, the second would be an issue.
Find out where she lives and post dog **** to her
Big Black Stilo said:
Why would any of that be an issue?
Partner or not, chances are its just office fun to help the day pass quicker I'd join in and say some erm... some things
Because I wouldnt do the second part to any girl in our office
Big Black Stilo said:
Sorry, I just had a mental image of:
