Panda (Classic) LVJ the scrap yard 4x4

[andyholli]

I'm still not convinced by the "16v engines lack low down torque" idea.

Here are the two curves for the 75 and 85

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/1997/720095/fiat_punto_75_sx.html

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/1998/720275/fiat_punto_85_16v_elx.html

The 16v starts, stays and peaks ahead of the 8v. - Isn't that also what you would expect from improved pumping efficiency?

The curve's shape tells you how they will feel different to drive. - Earlier gear changes in the 8V to drop it back into the meat but run them back to back and the 16v will always be faster even with gear changes at the same point. Rev it higher and the difference will be even more noticeable.

 

[panda panda]

That's still only 402 though: definitely worth trying to save as many as possible.

I'd say more puntos have died giving upgrades to sei's and cinq's and other punto's than ever will 4x4 Pandas.

 

[puntofan01]

I'd say more puntos have died giving upgrades to sei's and cinq's and other punto's than ever will 4x4 Pandas.

Fair enough. I hate the idea of destroying a perfectly usable car just to make another model go faster, especially bearing in mind that mk1 Puntos are relatively rare nowadays.

 

[northernchap]

Fair enough. I hate the idea of destroying a perfectly usable car just to make another model go faster, especially bearing in mind that mk1 Puntos are relatively rare nowadays.

Just put the Panda 999cc engine back into the Punto and everyone's a winner!

 

[Liquid Knight]

Those curves do look good but the 16V Punto Sporting has always felt flat to me; but I did have the 1.6 Sporting.

That was a great car and the 16V a shadow of what the platform could have been. That's a different discussion.

Rest assured the Punto I have in mind is a 60S and with the 75 bits in my shed a lighter block engine as I suggested earlier.

 

[Liquid Knight]

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/fiat_punto_s_60

Nearly 2,000 of those so we can all sleep a little easier. :devil:

 

[Liquid Knight]

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/305478-running-carbs.html

From our very forum. Bin all the loom, ecu and faff so you can use a better carb' and look bone stock with 80+hp.

 

[blu73]

I'm still not convinced by the "16v engines lack low down torque" idea.

Here are the two curves for the 75 and 85

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/1997/720095/fiat_punto_75_sx.html

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/curve/1998/720275/fiat_punto_85_16v_elx.html

The 16v starts, stays and peaks ahead of the 8v. - Isn't that also what you would expect from improved pumping efficiency?

The curve's shape tells you how they will feel different to drive. - Earlier gear changes in the 8V to drop it back into the meat but run them back to back and the 16v will always be faster even with gear changes at the same point. Rev it higher and the difference will be even more noticeable.

Having in my cento days had just about every FIRE engine in a cinq or sei at some point I can testify that the 16v defo does not feeling like its lacking at all low down. Feels more torque-y and powerful right through the rev range, and it keeps pulling hard up high in the revs whereas the 8v seems to just not be able to flow enough air once you get it right up there by comparison.

From a swapping into a panda point of view, the mk1 punto stuff is preferable over all the others for a few reason. As said previously, the early cars like mk1 puntos, bravos and bravas are all cable throttle, not that you can't use the later engines but the advantage of using the early ones is you can also use the TB and ecu and everything and its easy to make work in the a cable throttled car. To use a post-2000 car (mk2 punto, stilo etc) ecu you would have to fit a fly by wire throttle setup. Coming back to why a punto though is pretty much cause the punto sporting 16v was a little bit more powerful (5bhp and tiny bit of torque) - i believe the only difference between a punto sporting and bravo/a 16v is cams are a little livelier and the ecu will be ever so slightly different map tables to account for the different cams.

Loved my 1242 16v cinq!! Plenty fast enough to get into trouble with lol.

Is literally tonnes of stuff on 16v engines in the cinq/sei section and anyone seriously interested in doing such a conversion to a panda I highly recommend going and have a read of some of the build threads.

 

[panda panda]

https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/305478-running-carbs.html

From our very forum. Bin all the loom, ecu and faff so you can use a better carb' and look bone stock with 80+hp.

How does that gubbins get 80bhp out of a stock panda engine?

I hate chokes bloody annoying faff compared to all electronic fuel injection if you ask me.

The 4x4 kept dying on me without choke when it was warmed up on the last Panday, I just want to put my foot down and go.

Judging by the extra HP the 1108 exselecta has with the 5 speed box fitted (and probably in need of a service too) just that extra grunt makes a big difference to top end speed and hill climbing competence.

I was taught to drive by changing up as soon as possible (also had as many diesel cars as petrol) so I probably miss out on top end power but low down power is what I like and what I'm used to, I hated the 100HP for its high revving top end power, I prefer the TwinAir engine for its small band but good pulling throughout the range.

Ideally a small diesel unit would be my engine of choice for the 4x4 but getting one to fit?
I don't think we ever got the Fiat diesel Uno over here which would've been a logical choice, and I certainly wouldn't want to be a pioneer in this area - I'll leave that to AndyB!

On balance I think it will come down to finding the donor car at the right price wether that's 8v or 16v and of course a willing helper to do the conversion for me!

 

[Dragon Man]

i'd go with the 1.5 or 1.7 turbo diesel engine from a old mid 90's vauxhall. so i have been told, 3 out of the 4 bolt holes line up.... hmmm just some interesting clutch adapting should be all that is needed to get the engine and box working together.

maybe some huge wheels to compensate the petrol/diesel RPM difference...

 

[Palio]

How does that gubbins get 80bhp out of a stock panda engine?

I hate chokes bloody annoying faff compared to all electronic fuel injection if you ask me.

The 4x4 kept dying on me without choke when it was warmed up on the last Panday, I just want to put my foot down and go.

Judging by the extra HP the 1108 exselecta has with the 5 speed box fitted (and probably in need of a service too) just that extra grunt makes a big difference to top end speed and hill climbing competence.

I was taught to drive by changing up as soon as possible (also had as many diesel cars as petrol) so I probably miss out on top end power but low down power is what I like and what I'm used to, I hated the 100HP for its high revving top end power, I prefer the TwinAir engine for its small band but good pulling throughout the range.

Ideally a small diesel unit would be my engine of choice for the 4x4 but getting one to fit?
I don't think we ever got the Fiat diesel Uno over here which would've been a logical choice, and I certainly wouldn't want to be a pioneer in this area - I'll leave that to AndyB!

On balance I think it will come down to finding the donor car at the right price wether that's 8v or 16v and of course a willing helper to do the conversion for me!

There were plenty of Uno diesels John

http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk...ce=Trovit&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=Premium

They aren't worth a lot, but are getting scarce. The good news is that if you get rid of the diseasel, putting the FIRE engine into it won't harm the value & might appeal more to people like me!

 

[Freebo]

How does that gubbins get 80bhp out of a stock panda engine?

No, what he said was swap the engine but keep carb meaning it will look standard but will be a beefier engine.

 

[Liquid Knight]

To a casual observer the 1242 looks identical to the 999 FIRE. Open the bonnet and see something that doesn't look out of place. It's why most of the Punto 75 powered Cinquecento/Seicento's are still 1108 on the log book. Insurers think they're 55/60hp when they are closer to 80.

The 1.4 SuperFIRE will fit the gearbox but take the amount of faff from fitting a 1242 and multiply it by ten thousand or so.

The 1.4 diesel from the Doblo may also fit but they're not very good at all.

 

[kolza]

Ca we carry on this discussion in Henry the Orange panda thread as he will get the transpant done.

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/427393-henry-orange-4x4-2.html

Cheers

 

[panda panda]

Bump!

First person to rock up to Halifax and give me £999 cash, gets to drive away this beauty!

Offer for 1 week only then it goes on ebay.

I may even break it just to get some money back even though it's half what it owes me.

 

[panda1408]

Thats dangerously cheap John I wouldn't bother breaking it, you won't get your money back that way. A good Ebay advert will see it sold no problem

 

[Dragon Man]

i keep trying to get my brother to buy it haha it would be great for me and him to both have a pair for green lanes >_<

 

[mintex]

Dont break it, people like me are looking for a panda 4x4 but its just the wrong time to be selling with christmas and all.

I will be saving as much as i can after the new year once im back in work as will others no doubt so hang on

 

[panda panda]

Thats dangerously cheap John I wouldn't bother breaking it, you won't get your money back that way. A good Ebay advert will see it sold no problem

I'm not getting my money back it at 999. either, in fact it has cost me double to buy and get it road worthy.

The offer is only for a week though to a forumer, ebay next weekend!

 

[panda panda]

SOLD!!!

Lucky new owner is stebam from Manchester.

This is the place to be for help and advice Steve.

Congratulations and Thanks - I'll get a rear bumper sorted for you too!