Panda (Classic) LVJ the scrap yard 4x4

[Liquid Knight]

Tempted to click dislike.

Keep the thread going stebam you got a bloody bargain there.

 

[stebam]

So, "hi all"! It was good to meet panda panda yesterday and I'm looking forward to meeting a few more of you all in the future!

Having being immobile for a while, the 35 miles back to Manchester shook out a few gremlins, but nothing that couldn't be fixed en route and I got back to Manchester in one piece

First thing for today was to make a proper job of the electrics that I'd had to fiddle en route yesterday. Luckily, cleaning earths and re-terminating a couple of crimps fixed nearly all the ailments - such as the NSF sidelight flashing instead of the indicator I think just reversing lights and the 4x4 lamp need looking at some more, I'll see in the morning. At least having been through a fairly recent MOT, things must have been working and surely can't be too bad... looking OK so far.

The instrument cluster is hanging loose but this made it easier to reattach the speedo cable at least I'll have to dig through all my old screws and self-tappers to see if I have enough to fix it and the plastics back in place. Not quite yet though as there are a couple more things to check out while it's loose. One thing is that I need to discover where all the heater controls connect as it looks like I've a flap that could do with fixing:


Also took the radio out - old and broken - and made up a quick filler plate out of a bit of plastic to blank off the hole.

We had realised before I set off yesterday that the windscreen washers needed some attention - the rear washer pump was "sealed" in place with insulation tape.


It must have been enough for the MOT but now, a couple of months later, any water that went into the washer bottle poured straight back out

So today I had a think and a rummage in the basement. I found my box of grommets used for electrical backboxes and happily a grommet fit pretty well:

Let's see if that's good enough to last a while! Probably should have tested the pumps, but I'll leave that for a (hopefully pleasant) surprise tomorrow morning...

The washer bottle also needed a lid. Never one to throw something away that "might be useful one day" I tried a number of things for size. The winner? Lucozade bottle cap:

Nice positive fit, very snug, but then comes off nicely with a slight twist

Aside from that - cleaning! I was taught to always clean a car before welding and MOTs... clearly it's not essential

One thing I will say - the trim clips in a Panda are so much easier to work with than in a Mini. I wouldn't say it's a pleasure but no blood was drawn and no scratched paint (well, no additional scratches at least)!

There'll be loads more cleaning tomorrow - hopefully no more straw to be found - and I'll get it up on ramps but at least all the metalwork I've uncovered so far looks solid enough. Not always pretty but I'm hopeful all the essential welding is done! Again, the MOT reassures me quite a bit! Need to find all the nooks and crannies and look for signs of waxoyl too. I might reverse up the ramps for the first time in my life now I've got the option of drive on the rear wheels... sometimes it's the simple things that I look forward to

My main problem now is that I'm new to Pandas and I need to get used to Panda noises... I'm a little worried about the gearbox and rear axle as they are noisier than I'd expect. I know my Mini noises, so just trying to translate that to Panda. I plan to check oil levels tomorrow, hopefully that's all it needs else I'll try and find where I put my mechanics stethoscope when I last used it several years ago... I've also noticed since getting home there's a quiet background grinding when the clutch pedal is up that disappears when it's down - I'd guess an input shaft bearing. I'll listen for it getting worse but does anyone know if a little noise here might be expected on a Panda?

That's more than enough for now - I'll see what time I get tomorrow but at least I should able to fairly confidently make the short trips I need next week!

 

[kolza]

I've also noticed since getting home there's a quiet background grinding when the clutch pedal is up that disappears when it's down - I'd guess an input shaft bearing. I'll listen for it getting worse but does anyone know if a little noise here might be expected on a Panda?

That's more than enough for now - I'll see what time I get tomorrow but at least I should able to fairly confidently make the short trips I need next week!

Both my boxes 2wd and 4wd have light sympthoms of input shaft bering, nothing new i would say.

Looks like your are the right man for Panda owner, if your concern about reliabilyty of pandas have a read through our last Italy road trip thread with all the chaotic preperation in some cases.
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-classic/338374-panda-road-trip-italia.html

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Welcome to the forum

Epic work thus far mending bits, fantastic use of available household items.

The clutch noise will no doubt be the thrust bearing, mine has been doing this for around a year or so but obviously one to keep and ear on. If it gets louder suddenly then it'll be time to replace it.

The gear/diff noise could possibly be a prop shaft support bearing. Of recent we have all been replacing ours with ones bought from eBay, however six months or so down the line these are failing regularly on many cars including mine. I replaced the ones on the shaft which is on your car, these were the same type which are now known to be failing so consider this. A good way to iron this theory out, and also for you to do some more learning of the vehicle would be to remove the prop shaft and take it for a drive to see if the noise disappears. There are no shaft splined couplings at either shaft end, 4x bolts at the rear and 6x hex bolts at the front, then drop the central support plate down and it's off

 

[panda panda]

Good to meet you too Steve

I'm glad that LVJ is getting some love, I'd never been further in it than the end of the street I used to live on before yesterday.

Keep us updated on your progress - I forgot to give you a Haynes manual yesterday, I'll sort one out for you (along with the bumper) and catch up with you soon.

 

[Dragon Man]

welcome to the forum!

as i have learnt with a panda.. noises mean nothing. when it stops working.. thats when to worry.

that aside, yeah gearboxes do make some noise.. rear diffs.. hmm not sure as Talons does not (Talon is my panda 4x4 sisley)
if the oil levels are good i would not worry.

the gearbox noise like andy said would be the clutch thrust bearing. they dont half rattle around! i replaced the clutch on Talon with all new parts and the new bearing after a month or so rattles now.

the timing belt tensioner pulley is well known for making noises too. talons one does and its a relativity new one!

electrical faults sure are fun but nothing a clean and copper grease here ant there cant fix

the flap i think will just sit back in place..

 

[northernchap]

Welcome! I'm only in Bradford but I'm often over in Stockport visiting family so if you want a nose around my car or to have a go and see if it feels different to yours then let me know. Can't promise that my car is correct of course, but any noises it makes are the same ones it's always made so that's slightly comforting...

 

[Dragon Man]

dont forget the Clack Clack!

 

[stebam]

Thanks all!

... have a read through our last Italy road trip thread with all the chaotic preperation in some cases.

Cheers kolza, that was a fun read, looks like it was a great trip!

Welcome! I'm only in Bradford but I'm often over in Stockport visiting family so if you want a nose around my car or to have a go and see if it feels different to yours then let me know. Can't promise that my car is correct of course, but any noises it makes are the same ones it's always made so that's slightly comforting...

Cheers northernchap, I might well take you up on this sometime that's convenient for you There's a few things I should probably iron out first though.

The gear/diff noise could possibly be a prop shaft support bearing. Of recent we have all been replacing ours with ones bought from eBay, however six months or so down the line these are failing regularly on many cars including mine. I replaced the ones on the shaft which is on your car, these were the same type which are now known to be failing so consider this. A good way to iron this theory out, and also for you to do some more learning of the vehicle would be to remove the prop shaft and take it for a drive to see if the noise disappears. There are no shaft splined couplings at either shaft end, 4x bolts at the rear and 6x hex bolts at the front, then drop the central support plate down and it's off

Cheers AndyPanda4x4, I'll take a look at doing this sometime soon, I think it will indeed be worthwhile. I've watched a few Dragon Man videos to get me prepared too

There are two main noises I'm getting at the moment - not doing too many miles though:

1. Whenever accelerating, gently or harshly, the gearbox is very clattery. Freewheeling and steady speed are a lot quieter. Given the quiet grinding on tickover I wonder if this is all input shaft bearing related. I need to check gearbox oil still though.
2. When moving slowly, forwards or reverse, there is a squeak from somewhere at the back, maybe (rough guess) one squeak per wheel rotation. As road speed rises the squeaks sound less squeaky and with faster rotation this noise sounds more like a steam train chugging along. I can hear a lot more clearly after taking the rear seat out but not well enough to determine if it is coming more from the O/S, N/S, or centre.

Hopefully it'll become clearer as I get chance to poke about but I'd always welcome any suggestions or educated guesses

A separate big worry is that it's drunk about a litre of coolant in around 60 miles. I can see a little steam from the radiator when the engine is running - perhaps a couple of pinholes in the radiator, not too much - and no obvious pools of coolant under the car. I'm worried it could be head gasket, water-way to cylinder, but there's not what I'd call excessive steam from the exhaust. I've recently bought a cheap USB borescope so I'll hopefully have chance to pull the sparkplugs and take a good look at down the cylinders this weekend. Could be interesting in any case, the borescope was only a few quid and I think I can take a video with it - I'll post videos if it works. Hopefully I don't have one unnaturally steam-cleaned piston/bore and I have just missed a leak somewhere less critical!

Other than that, I'm just fettling little bits here and there as I get a moment. The front wiper arm picked it's moment to jump off the splines (which do look a bit worn) in the pouring rain. I've given it a solid whack back into place but we'll see if that is enough to keep it in place for now - I'm not too hopeful. A couple of bulbs, fuses, and wires and I've now got a bit more in the way of ancillary lighting - just a bit more dash illumination needed but I've got the essentials back (plus the 4x4 indication lamp). The reversing light is an interesting one - there was no bulb in place but adding one didn't help. When I went to put a meter on the rear cluster connector I swear that position on the connector for reverse is empty! Something else for the ever growing "things that I really should look at" list

 

[Bartpanda]

Whenever accelerating, gently or harshly, the gearbox is very clattery. Freewheeling and steady speed are a lot quieter. Given the quiet grinding on tickover I wonder if this is all input shaft bearing related. I need to check gearbox oil still though

also clean from any gunk and inspect the passenger side{ short one} driveshaft flange. It often cracks/breaks causing the differential to move{ flange holds one of the diffs main bearings} when accelerating/ decelerating.

It often cracks where marked:

 

[stebam]

A bit of an update. I've driven a bit more, work and back mostly, and the water consumption was still on the increase...

So, borescope down the sparkplug holes... USB borescope , about £8 off Amazon, plugged into an old Android phone. Cylinder 1 not looking so good... I'll post a Youtube link once I'm up to 5 posts

Once I'd seen that I didn't take so much care cleaning the sparkplug wells before removing the other plugs (as the video shows).

So, I took off the head... Cylinder 1 looked to have a hairline crack on the gasket fire ring, which, after a gentle poke, did look like the culprit:


For your amusement, here's some rocker cover mayonnaise:


So, I've got the head off, need to check if it needs a skim. Not much more going on at the minute though with the snow:

 

[stebam]

It often cracks where marked..

Cheers - I'll make a point of checking this out when I'm giving the engine a much-needed cleanup!

 

[stebam]

Youtube link for those who might be interested. For a few quid the borescope did the job quite nicely - first job of many!



You should be able to spot the horrible mush in cylinder 1, much wetter than the other cylinders and not quite the same carbon build up on the top of the piston.

 

[Liquid Knight]

Skim?

Port polish and valve cleaning surely.

 

[panda panda]

There is a spare engine in North Yorkshire (went with LVJ when he went for welding) andy4x4 might know where it is! You are more than welcome to it if it helps your project.

 

[Dragon Man]

punto engine all the way..

to be fair, driving fallout is just like driving talon with nothing but a drivers seat in... thats about the same effect it has!

 

[puntofan01]

punto engine all the way..

Noooo! A Punto engine belongs in a Punto!

 

[Bartpanda]

punto engine all the way..

shhhhh... try lancia y then

 

[Dragon Man]

fiat engines are like cats.. if they fits, they sits!
if the dona car was damaged and only good for parts then why not

 

[blu73]

:yeahthat: