Technical Koni damper experiment thread

[Philip Young]

Where is Larkspeed, are these the best suppliers? Whats the part-no or reference no to order Koni Sports, all-round the full set? Want to try it on the New Panda.

Will report back!

 

[306maxi]

Where is Larkspeed, are these the best suppliers? Whats the part-no or reference no to order Koni Sports, all-round the full set? Want to try it on the New Panda.

Will report back!

Or not......

As I said before

There are no Konis for the panda ta yet

So you may end up buying something that doesn't fit at all OR is badly suited to the new Panda.

 

[babbo_umbro]

I found Larkspeed to be extremely good - (equal) best price and kept their delivery promise. Once again - as stated above - I wonder if the 500 and new Panda have more commonality in suspension details than previously, allowing Panda owners to benefit from the greater range of add-ons available for the 500. Have to wait and see when there are a few more new Pandas lumbering around and when part numbers are known.

 

[babbo_umbro]

Because manufacturers simply don't want to spend the money on decent dampers when a lot probably won't know? That said some manufacturers like Subaru have Spec-B models. The B stands for Bilstein, and quite a few people go for them because they know the suspension is going to be decent.

Interesting about the Subaru option - perhaps a Panda 100HP-K would have been a good idea.

 

[306maxi]

Interesting about the Subaru option - perhaps a Panda 100HP-K would have been a good idea.

Would I have paid a couple of hundred extra pounds for some Koni's on my 500 from the factory? Definitely! Missed opportunity for profit for Fiat IMHO. But then again what percentage of people would actually tick the option box when most 500's and Panda's get driven around towns at less than breakneck speed.

 

[Philip Young]

They're meant to be very good. But for some reason I'm gravitating towards the Bilstein B14 coilovers as I reckon they'll yield a greater increase in handling performance

The piston rod is the same o.e. diameter, its not stronger, hence Koni being the better bet. Also, Bilstein themselves say they are o.e. equivalent, and are they adjustable, like the Koni?

How is Fiat missing out on profit by not selling Koni, come on, they are two seperate companies. Yes, Koni might not be "engineering down to a price" unlike Fiat, but its like comparing burgers with steak. Fiat want to sell their own, surely.

 

[Philip Young]

Or not......

As I said before



So you may end up buying something that doesn't fit at all OR is badly suited to the new Panda.

OK, so the latest Panda is over a hundredweight heavier than the "old" model, but surely the uprated (from the factory, who have uprated the suspension) factory shockabsorbers might well be the same length, so, Konis could fit the car, and you click up half a turn to match the new-models stronger springs, (and play around adjusting till happy) ??

 

[babbo_umbro]

OK, so the latest Panda is over a hundredweight heavier than the "old" model, but surely the uprated (from the factory, who have uprated the suspension) factory shockabsorbers might well be the same length, so, Konis could fit the car, and you click up half a turn to match the new-models stronger springs, (and play around adjusting till happy) ??

There is - or should be - more to suiting a damper to a car than that - otherwise any adjustable damper would be suitable for any car that it would physically fit on. Not so. Firstly, it's only the rebound that you're adjusting so you have no way of adjusting the bump characteristic to the spring - that was why I was slightly put off by the fact that all (non-4wd) Pandas take the same Koni (and Bilstein). The valves inside the damper that control the flow of fluid and define the damping characteristics also need to be matched to the specific car. You might be lucky but the best bet would be to either wait till there are uprated dampers for a specific model or - if you must - find a damper that's adjustable on bump and rebound - not sure there are any for the Panda.

 

[babbo_umbro]

...
How is Fiat missing out on profit by not selling Koni, come on, they are two seperate companies. Yes, Koni might not be "engineering down to a price" unlike Fiat, but its like comparing burgers with steak. Fiat want to sell their own, surely.

Fiat buys its shock absorbers from anyone who'll provide them cheaply - there are no "Fiat" shock absorbers. You can bet that Fiat wouldn't pay Koni about 500 quid for a set of adjustables for a Panda 100HP - but they could add more than their cost (to Fiat) to the retail price of a 100HP-K - increasing their profit while giving buyers the Koni option at less than they would pay in the after-market; also, the improvement to the car could - or even would - lead to higher sales, increasing the profit again.

 

[306maxi]

The piston rod is the same o.e. diameter, its not stronger, hence Koni being the better bet. Also, Bilstein themselves say they are o.e. equivalent, and are they adjustable, like the Koni?

How is Fiat missing out on profit by not selling Koni, come on, they are two seperate companies. Yes, Koni might not be "engineering down to a price" unlike Fiat, but its like comparing burgers with steak. Fiat want to sell their own, surely.

I'm not talking about buying the cheapie OE equivalent Bilstein's. I'm talking about buying the full fat B14 coilovers for my 500.

They're missing out on profit by not having got more money out of people when it comes to purchase time. The only manufacturer who to my knowledge makes their own dampers is Peugeot, they've even used their own inhouse designed dampers on their rally cars.

 

[306maxi]

There is - or should be - more to suiting a damper to a car than that - otherwise any adjustable damper would be suitable for any car that it would physically fit on. Not so. Firstly, it's only the rebound that you're adjusting so you have no way of adjusting the bump characteristic to the spring - that was why I was slightly put off by the fact that all (non-4wd) Pandas take the same Koni (and Bilstein). The valves inside the damper that control the flow of fluid and define the damping characteristics also need to be matched to the specific car. You might be lucky but the best bet would be to either wait till there are uprated dampers for a specific model or - if you must - find a damper that's adjustable on bump and rebound - not sure there are any for the Panda.

EXACTLY. Just because something fits doesn't mean it's suitable. The new Panda has only been on sale for a few months so it will take a while before upgrade shocks are available.

Don't do the daft thing and buy a set of dampers which possibly won't fit and almost certainly weren't designed for that car.

I answered you once before, asking again doesn't change the reality of the situation which is that there are no Koni's for the Mk4 Panda.

 

[1.8Stilo]

contact koni and offer your car as a mule

 

[Philip Young]

Does anyone know why the 4x4 has different spec dampers than the 2wd car? When you look on ebay at all the spares available, lots of different shock absorbers pop up for the 2 wd car, but all specifically say "not 4x4". I thought the greater ride height of the 4x4 models was not down to longer springs (and so longer shocks to suit longer springs) but the gain was down to taller 15 inch wheels and taller profile tyres.

 

[306maxi]

Does anyone know why the 4x4 has different spec dampers than the 2wd car? When you look on ebay at all the spares available, lots of different shock absorbers pop up for the 2 wd car, but all specifically say "not 4x4". I thought the greater ride height of the 4x4 models was not down to longer springs (and so longer shocks to suit longer springs) but the gain was down to taller 15 inch wheels and taller profile tyres.

Because the 4x4 has completely different rear suspension..... plus with it being designed for going offroad rather than down to the corner shop the requirements on the suspension are different so there will be different springs and dampers.

 

[Philip Young]

Excuse the ignorance. What is "completely different". Upright dampers, instead of angled? Or is it more fundamental in design? In which case, Ive just bought the wrong car (new Easy).

 

[306maxi]

Excuse the ignorance. What is "completely different". Upright dampers, instead of angled? Or is it more fundamental in design? In which case, Ive just bought the wrong car (new Easy).

Are you buying dampers to fit the car or a car to fit the dampers?

 

[Philip Young]

I doubt Koni will be rushing to add an uprated shock absorber to their list for quite a while, not until the car is a much more common sight on the road and people begin to think about replacing worn o.e. ones. So, given we have the car, it seemed a good idea (at the time) to look at this - but if they dont fit of course the idea is useless. So, thanks for that! The only other option is to get some made, via the likes of Gaz and those who make bespoke shockabsorbers on a one-off basis.

 

[306maxi]

OK after your email it all makes more sense. You're looking for an uprated damper because you're going to be driving the Panda through Africa. All makes sense now.

In terms of fitting the 4wd suspension to a 2wd new Panda I don't really think it would work. Would the subframe even fit on a new car? Who knows? The mounting points could be exactly the same or could be different.

Perhaps talking to Gaz or whoever is willing to manufacture a set as a one off might be the best idea

 

[Wurz]

Hi guys, most interesting reading about the Koni Damper and yes, the one thing that drives me mad is the poor (comfort) ride of my 100hp. Before reading this thread I had spoken to my local Fiat Parts and asked if other springs were available (they aren't) and hadn't even considered dampers! I may be tempted to get a rear pair of the Koni STR.T and if I do will post results. Now, about tyres. I'm on the original Goodyears (only 18k on the clock) but have read elsewhere that upping to a 55 ratio as against the original 45 helps with a softer ride but another post suggests a 50 ration on Yoko's. From experience have you any recommendations? I'm looking for a softer ride as I am post 60 and feel all the bumps! Apart from that the 100hp looks the part, has the oomph, and the quality of build is most impressive to those like me had Fiats in the 70's & 80's. It's also a small car with street cred as my 17 year old say's!

 

[midget4hire]

Hi guys, most interesting reading about the Koni Damper and yes, the one thing that drives me mad is the poor (comfort) ride of my 100hp. Before reading this thread I had spoken to my local Fiat Parts and asked if other springs were available (they aren't) and hadn't even considered dampers! I may be tempted to get a rear pair of the Koni STR.T and if I do will post results. Now, about tyres. I'm on the original Goodyears (only 18k on the clock) but have read elsewhere that upping to a 55 ratio as against the original 45 helps with a softer ride but another post suggests a 50 ration on Yoko's. From experience have you any recommendations? I'm looking for a softer ride as I am post 60 and feel all the bumps! Apart from that the 100hp looks the part, has the oomph, and the quality of build is most impressive to those like me had Fiats in the 70's & 80's. It's also a small car with street cred as my 17 year old say's!

If you are looking for a comfier ride id look towards maybe 50 profile tyres, not sure how well 55 would fit under the arches, cant remember what the arch gap is like on standard suspension now
50 profile tyres are a LOT cheaper than the 45 profile ones too