Technical kocking bottom end? removed bearing shells *PICS*

[spitfire123]

Hi all,
made a thread before about the bottom end knocking....now i have removed the sump et to get at the big end shells...i was expecting the crank to be ****ed on one of the gernols. but i have taken the shels out of the borrom bit of the crank and the crank looks fine?? still polished and everything the bearing shells dont look to bad either...there all in the same condition? they are slightly pittle and few scrapes and scratches but no damage to the crank? soo where the hell is this massive knock comming from? it was deffanatly a knock and not a 'rattle' suggesting the big end. pics attached for you all to see ( its only of 1 shell but they all are in roughly the same condition)

cheers

 

[s and b]

make sure you have marked them from where they came from
is the bottom pulley loose causing the clonking?
is it the diff?
etc
sorry
at least you are getting somewhere

 

[spitfire123]

make sure you have marked them from where they came from
is the bottom pulley loose causing the clonking?
is it the diff?
etc
sorry
at least you are getting somewhere

hi mate,
yeh took 1 oat a time off and checked and put bk on so no need to mark.

it wont be the diff as it does it on the spot when reved up, and its a bang defanatly sound slike bottom end. but judging by the crank and the bearimgs it isnt that. possibly top end maby?

bottom pully seems good.

as its a head gasket failur car ( never heard ot run before i did the head), maby ots only recently started knocking? and wont be any damage on the shells maby? or mabt it is the top end?

cheeers

 

[s and b]

if the crank was dripping with oil as it should then i cant believe you have a mains bearing issue but who knows
its so difficult to even pinpoint a noise
remember if it sounded as half the speed of the engine then it was a camshaft noise but a crank noise if sounding full speed

 

[spitfire123]

if the crank was dripping with oil as it should then i cant believe you have a mains bearing issue but who knows
its so difficult to even pinpoint a noise
remember if it sounded as half the speed of the engine then it was a camshaft noise but a crank noise if sounding full speed

it defanatly sounded an engine knock.

basicly at idol it was knoking ( a heavy rattle) then when under load or reved up it turned in to a HEvy knock. now a si bough this car as a non runner because of the head gasket issue i was wondering if the nobed who had it before me ran it low on oil and i though that was what caused it.

as the bottom ends seem ok, maby it is the little ends? ARE THEY REBUILDABLE ON PUNTOS? or is it new conrod and guegon pin? it dod sound like the 4th cilinder knicking to me (N/S cilinder).

but im not going to no unless i take the bloody head off again and check the freeplay in the piton to conrod link:bang:

cheers again

 

[DaveMcT]

I cant remember if this was mentioned but is the cam getting oil. If the head gasket is fitted upside down it will cause the cams to knock.

I've also had an engine (not fiat) with a broken piston skirt that was flapping about causing an impossible to find tick tick

 

[spitfire123]

I cant remember if this was mentioned but is the cam getting oil. If the head gasket is fitted upside down it will cause the cams to knock.

I've also had an engine (not fiat) with a broken piston skirt that was flapping about causing an impossible to find tick tick

the head gasket can only go on 1 way.

it defanatly sounded like a big end knock tho not a 'tick' as such.

im baff;led by this one...im thinking maby its the top end?

im thinking im going to have to take teh head off again aint i?:bang:

 

[DaveMcT]

Head gaskets can be fitted wrong on the HGT and the 1200 8V. I dont know about the 16V 1200.

 

[spitfire123]

Head gaskets can be fitted wrong on the HGT and the 1200 8V. I dont know about the 16V 1200.

no i dont belive they can be as the waterpump wells are involved in the heaed gasket design and only fir 1 way.

to end then?

 

[DaveMcT]

I'm pretty sure the gasket *can* be fitted wrong. Of course it's incorrect but the first you'll know is zero oil supply to the head. You have four ways to drop the gasket on & only one is correct.

 

[spitfire123]

I'm pretty sure the gasket *can* be fitted wrong. Of course it's incorrect but the first you'll know is zero oil supply to the head. You have four ways to drop the gasket on & only one is correct.

have you ever done a 1.2 8v headgasket?

as i odnt thinnk you noi what im talking about.

cheers

 

[s and b]

I'm pretty sure the gasket *can* be fitted wrong. Of course it's incorrect but the first you'll know is zero oil supply to the head. You have four ways to drop the gasket on & only one is correct.

certainly can be on the mk1 punto so no oil to top end

 

[HgtBill]

have you ever done a 1.2 8v headgasket?

as i odnt thinnk you noi what im talking about.

cheers

You can fit them up the wrong way, theres a slot in the middle of the gasket on one side, did you have that at the front or back of the block?

 

[Ziggy122]

I;ve heard of Punto's HG not been fitted correctly and starving the engine in places causing another failure

the Crank Shells do look fine
One way to test if the oil getting to top which is causing the knock
Is when your getting the Kncoking noise is to top the oil up slowly and see if the knocking noise dampens a little

Other then that - look to see if there bits floating in the water pump


Ziggy

 

[spitfire123]

right,
stripped it to peices tonight again, i had put the gsket on the correct way round.

so i decided to pull the 4th piston that i thought was knocking out... and guess what? its ****ed there is litraly 3-4mm of movement in the topend...not on the conrod tahts perfect still no ply, its on the piston to gudgon pin. also the rings are fryed and the oil ring broken good old puntos:bang:...luckly the bores all good.

now where can i get hold of used piston/pin?

also notgher thing do the pins have to be pressed out of the conrod?

cheers

 

[Ziggy122]

Give them to a Engine Specialist, they should be able to machine a new pin for you
And Fit them, and fit new seals

i'd advise you do all the pistons tho, sort of a Mini rebuild really

Ziggy

 

[DaveMcT]

If one has gone the others might also be going. Pistons are normally heated in boiling water with the gudgeon pin put in the freezer so they slot together easily. Circlips stop them falling out when the engine heats up & expands the pistons.

Pistons are sold complete with gudgeon pins, rings and circlips. Pins are special steel chrome plated and accurately ground.

 

[s and b]

of course a s/h piston from a breakers with new rings is a possibility to keep these rising costs down
piston =£10 if you know them
rings about £65

 

[DaveMcT]

Get a full set complete with conrods. Rings will be sold as a set anyway.

 

[spitfire123]

Get a full set complete with conrods. Rings will be sold as a set anyway.

yeh thanks,
anyone no the torque settings for the bottom end bolts?