Technical JTD Stlio is sick with white smoke. Any idea?

[shiningliao]

My 2003 JTD Stilo is developing a sick sympton recently. It happen when I just start up the car without warm up the car (only sometimes, not always).

The sympton is:
- Engine lost power
- Ignition seems one of the cylinder didn't ignite.
- White smoke
- Engine viberate a lot more.

If I let the engine warm up, then let the engine run to 3000 RPM. Then probelm disappeard for the day.

Anybody got any idea or similiar situation?

 

[Greggers]

My 2003 JTD Stilo is developing a sick sympton recently. It happen when I just start up the car without warm up the car (only sometimes, not always).

The sympton is:
- Engine lost power
- Ignition seems one of the cylinder didn't ignite.
- White smoke
- Engine viberate a lot more.

If I let the engine warm up, then let the engine run to 3000 RPM. Then probelm disappeard for the day.

Anybody got any idea or similiar situation?

I'd check to see if you have any oil in your coolant expansion tank or water in your oil as I think white smoke is usually a symptom of a blown head gasket. If you've got white/chocolate brown foam around your oil filler lid, then the news probably isn't good.

Has you car overheated at all recently?

 

[cris1117]

Hi
Is it steam or white smoke coming from the exhaust? Are you losing coolant?
If it’s steam I would agree probably head gasket or similar, in which case you will be losing coolant.
If it’s white smoke it would be un burnt diesel, from what little you have said I would be looking at dodgy injector or sticking valve.
The fact that it improves when warm would steer me away from head gasket.
I think you need to see a proper mechanic to investigate further.
Good luck.

 

[Deckchair5]

Sometimes with a head gasket gone, it will leak water into one of the bores when the engine cools and the metals contract. It's enough to put some water in one cylinder and causes a non fire in that cylinder with corresponding white smoke at the exhaust and the "one cylinder isn't firing" judder. Once the engine warms up it can almost reseal again or at least be hot enough in there to get rid of water drops coming in to the cylinder. You can often drive for hundreds of miles afterwards with no symptoms- until you leave it overnight again

Until you get it investigated, try removing the coolant cap for a second to release the coolant pressure when you come to park up for the night. That'll stop a lot of the coolant pushing it's way into the bore overnight

Depends how big the leak is (if it is head gasket) but there are some effective products on the market to seal cylinder head water leaks and radiator leaks. Depends on your luck but i've been surprised that they formed a permanent cure so they worked for me

 

[shiningliao]

Thanks for all the possible suggestions. The problem doesn't feel like head gasket problem because:

1). Car never have over heat problem.
2). Not sign of lose coolant at all.
3). No water in the oil, or oil in the coolant at all.
4). No excessive pressure or gas bubble in the coolant.

All these diagnosis show the problem shouldn't be around head gasket issue.

I tend to think it's something to do with fuel injection issue...

 

[shiningliao]

If it’s white smoke it would be un burnt diesel, from what little you have said I would be looking at dodgy injector or sticking valve.

My knowledge is un-burnt diesel will cause BLACK smoke. WHITE smoke tend to be water in the engine. BLUE smoke means oil in was burnt....

Not sure if this is correct. Is white smoke also means un burnt diesel?

I also think it's dodgy injector or sticking valve issue. Any idea how to do further investigation? And how to fix it?

Thanks.

 

[Deckchair5]

1). Car never have over heat problem.
2). Not sign of lose coolant at all.
3). No water in the oil, or oil in the coolant at all.
4). No excessive pressure or gas bubble in the coolant.

Those are the symptoms if the head gasket is totally gone and you'll know all about it then. If it only has a weeping water leak when the engine is cold then you can get your present symptoms

I'd have a look at the plugs if you can before you start it up from cold, you probably know which cylinder it is by now, look for moisture on the plug. Cheap and easy check

Use your nose, what does the white smoke smell of?

 

[shiningliao]

1). Car never have over heat problem.
2). Not sign of lose coolant at all.
3). No water in the oil, or oil in the coolant at all.
4). No excessive pressure or gas bubble in the coolant.

Those are the symptoms if the head gasket is totally gone and you'll know all about it then. If it only has a weeping water leak when the engine is cold then you can get your present symptoms

I'd have a look at the plugs if you can before you start it up from cold, you probably know which cylinder it is by now, look for moisture on the plug. Cheap and easy check

Use your nose, what does the white smoke smell of?

Don't really understand what you mean by "plug". It's JTD... Diesel, no spark plug.

Any more detail suggestion?

 

[Deckchair5]

Spark plugs, glow plugs you need some kind of plug to make it go bang in the mornings

 

[shiningliao]

If it’s white smoke it would be un burnt diesel, from what little you have said I would be looking at dodgy injector or sticking valve.

A bit of google found something interesting:

White Smoke

Normally means that the fuel injected into the cylinder is not burning correctly. The smoke will burn your eyes.

• Engine/pump timing out
• Fuel starvation to the pump causing the pumps timing not to operate correctly
• Low engine compression
• Water/petrol in the fuel

Start to feel it's dirty fuel filter... (hope so).... Will get to replaced to see if it fix the problem.

 

[shiningliao]

Spark plugs, glow plugs you need some kind of plug to make it go bang in the mornings

Thanks for the reply. I see what you mean now.

Just for your information, my Stilo is Diesel engine. Diesel engine use high compression (1:5, hence high temperature) to make it ignite. Unlike petrol engine use spark plug. Diesel do not have spark plug.

 

[john55]

Your Turbo is probably on its last legs. The bearings have play and oil seals are leaking.
Engine is probably running with low oil pressure and will quickly cause other problems too.

Is it spitting any oil out of the exhaust pipe? How many miles has it done?

 

[shiningliao]

Your Turbo is probably on its last legs. The bearings have play and oil seals are leaking.
Engine is probably running with low oil pressure and will quickly cause other problems too.

Is it spitting any oil out of the exhaust pipe? How many miles has it done?

Hi, I am a bit worried now as things just like what you said.

When the problem happened this morning, I run the engine to 3000 RPM and I did see the balck mark on the floor where exhaust pipe ends. Not sure if that is oil.

One thing I am sure is there are oil leak around the turbo. Sometimes, the engine start up check will show "oil level sensor failure". Restart the engine with a bit of delay can get rid of this error message.

If what you suggest is correct, how much will it cost to fix it? Is it just a bearing to replace or the whole turbo?

Thanks in advance.

 

[shiningliao]

How many miles has it done?

62000 miles... is it about time for Stilo to have such problem?

 

[cris1117]

Hi All.
The black mark on the floor would be normal if you’re revving the engine when cold, just soot mixed with un burnt diesel.
Most of my experience is with commercial diesels so I am not sure what is relevant on smaller engines
I would have thought that given the high compression on a diesel even a small leak on the head gasket (cylinder to water jacket) would cause back pressure resulting in bubbles in the header tank and the hoses to become pressurised. Try giving the top hose a squeeze when the engine is warm, you should be able to squeeze it together with one finger and thumb if not suspect head gasket.
Personally with your mileage I would discount turbo, it’s possible but not likely.
Just an idea if one of the glow plugs was completely dead it would cause the symptoms you describe.
The uneven running when cold, white smoke (un burnt diesel) once the engine has warmed up the glow plugs would not be needed to burn the diesel efficiently,.
Check the wiring to the glow plugs with a tester makes sure each one has power when you first switch on the ignition, if that seems O.K I would remove and test them just to be sure, be careful they get red hot in a split second.
Good luck.

 

[shiningliao]

Hi All.
Just an idea if one of the glow plugs was completely dead it would cause the symptoms you describe.
The uneven running when cold, white smoke (un burnt diesel) once the engine has warmed up the glow plugs would not be needed to burn the diesel efficiently,.

Golw plugs for diesel engine....
This is something new for my knowledge. I thought there is no glow plugs in diesel engine!!!! Checking on internet confirm THERE IS such parts for JTD enigne.

I'm going to check the glow plug first!

Thanks!

 

[shiningliao]

I am totally confused!

I cannot find the glow plugs from my JTD enigne!!

The only thing look like is the fuel injector on top of each cylinder. It is definitely fuel injector as the fuel pipe goes into it. However, there are some electrical wire go into it as well although these wires are more like some sort of sensor instead of thick glow plug wire.

I still think there is NO glow plug in JTD. But then what is this glow plugs for JTD engine?
http://www.shop4parts.co.uk/index.cfm?action=catalogue.search&startrow=19

 

[Argonought]

You certainly have 4 glow-plug (or heater plugs) but it's very unlikely just one failure would cause the symptoms you mention unless you live in a cold climate.

In any case, the Stilo will advise you if one (or more) have failed.

Quite easy to check (but very difficult to change/remove).

Check in the Guides section for a "how-to" on testing them.

 

[shiningliao]

Your Turbo is probably on its last legs. The bearings have play and oil seals are leaking.
Engine is probably running with low oil pressure and will quickly cause other problems too.

I have checked the turbo... leaking oil. Don't know how long can it last!?

Looks like I have to ask FIAT dealer to do a check now... ££££

 

[shiningliao]

My Stilo is now in the garage. So far, they cannot find the problem... neither to reproduce the problem.

Looks like I have to leave the car in the garage overnight and hopefully tomorrow morning will have same problem so that they can trace the root cause.