Technical JTD Stlio is sick with white smoke. Any idea?

[john55]

I have checked the turbo... leaking oil. Don't know how long can it last!?

Looks like I have to ask FIAT dealer to do a check now... ££££

How have you checked it? You would have to remove it from the car to check. Oil leaks from turbo into inlet or exhaust and goes through the engine. It does not leak out onto the ground.

It could also be a valve guide seal or piston ring sticking. Your engine is burning oil to produce the white smoke. Something is leaking inside the engine, but one thing for sure is it wont be cheap.

 

[shiningliao]

How have you checked it? You would have to remove it from the car to check. Oil leaks from turbo into inlet or exhaust and goes through the engine. It does not leak out onto the ground.

It could also be a valve guide seal or piston ring sticking. Your engine is burning oil to produce the white smoke. Something is leaking inside the engine, but one thing for sure is it wont be cheap.

There are oil around pipes of the turbo (outside, quite obvious). Open up the air filter box can see there are some oil. Don't know eactly where does it come from but I guess the oil was sucked into engine from air intake and burnt....

I thought burning oil will cause blue smoke not white smoke. Is this correct?

Is it the oil into engine cause the misfire problem? Or is it low oil pressure cause the misfire problem?

 

[Argonought]

John55 has a thing about turbo's failing but I don't think it's that common (not on Fiat's anyway )

The oil contamination you mention is very common on the JTD and I'd strongly recommend to clean it in order to get an idea just how bad it is. I'd also recommend you inspect your MAF sensor as that wont work very well if covered in oil

 

[Muppet1]

to be quite honest Turbo's should not fail in any car, van, truck etc if looked after. quite often its driver error.

 

[adamcot]

Yep, at work we find that 90% of all our turbos that are returned are damaged by the engine they came off. It is very rare we find one of our products failing and we build for trucks and buses, which get a much harder life than a normal passenger car. A new Garrett turbo on a JTD is upwards of £600 by the way!!

 

[john55]

The turbo went on my JTD which has full service history. The bearing collapsed, broke the tips off the impellar and then oil seal leaked into exhaust. Classic turbo failure which is all too common.

The design life of a Garret turbo is 60K miles.

Just look on a BMW forum about failing turbos on diesels. It gets them all sooner or later.

Turbos on trucks are very different (In terms of design requirements ) to a turbo on a car engine. The same can be said for the rest of the vehicle too.

 

[nidza]

But...

Isn't turbo failure connected with blue smoke, not white one?

In the fuel filter there is water displacement zone, maybe it's full of water? What quality of fuel is in general overthere?

 

[shiningliao]

Thank you for all of your comments.

FIAT dealer told me that the computer diagnose found nothing wrong. They did reproduce the problem in the morning but simply cannot trace to the root cause. Turbo shouldn't be a problem as it should show up in the computer diagnose result if failed.

The mechanic said that it could be the head gasket problem at early stage... and the only way to find out is to strip the engine off. :yuck:

I had 2 previous cars got engine head gasket problem... I am very careful when buying cars and check any signs of head gasket issue when owning them. If Stilo got head gasket problem again... *(&*(^&^%&%^%$%$%^&

 

[shiningliao]

But...

Isn't turbo failure connected with blue smoke, not white one?

In the fuel filter there is water displacement zone, maybe it's full of water? What quality of fuel is in general overthere?

I had removed the fuel filter last weekend. There is no water, at least not anymore. My new ordered fuel filter has arrived. I'll replace it this weekend.

 

[shiningliao]

I am really puzzled now. Here is my plan:

1). Replace the fuel filter.
2). Use block tester (test if any exhaust leak into coolant system) to check if head gasket is the problem.
3). Clean the MAF sensor and all the oil leak around the turbo and maybe replace the air filter.

Any other suggestion? (except stripe engine off engine to see the head gasket)

 

[Argonought]

The mechanic said that it could be the head gasket problem at early stage... and the only way to find out is to strip the engine off. :yuck:

Sounds right to me.

Might be worth checking head bolts are torqued correctly but suspect it could last for years like that.

Best keep a check on oil contamination though (with water )

 

[john55]

The computer will not diagnose a Turbo problem. It is totally mechanical and not connected to the computer. The computer will only tell you if the turbo is dead and you will know that anyway because car will have no power at all. However, it is unlikely based on the fact the smoke clears away. Leaking turbo seals usually smoke when the engine is hot.

It is more than likely a leaking valve guide seal, a sticking piston ring, or maybe HGF.

You could try running some engine cleaner (the one that goes in the oil) through it and then put new oil in. This may improve a sticking ring or leaking seal. If this improves it then it is not the HG.

With problems like this it it is difficult to diagnose without actually stripping the engine to have a look.

 

[john55]

But...

Isn't turbo failure connected with blue smoke, not white one?

In a Petrol engine, yes. In a diesel, burning oil tends to produce a light grey / white-ish smoke.

 

[shiningliao]

The computer will not diagnose a Turbo problem. It is totally mechanical and not connected to the computer. The computer will only tell you if the turbo is dead and you will know that anyway because car will have no power at all. However, it is unlikely based on the fact the smoke clears away. Leaking turbo seals usually smoke when the engine is hot.

It is more than likely a leaking valve guide seal, a sticking piston ring, or maybe HGF.

You could try running some engine cleaner (the one that goes in the oil) through it and then put new oil in. This may improve a sticking ring or leaking seal. If this improves it then it is not the HG.

With problems like this it it is difficult to diagnose without actually stripping the engine to have a look.

What is HGF/HG?

I am just about to change the oil. It's good time to use engine cleaner to see if it helps.

 

[shiningliao]

Some more information about my sick stilo.

- The white smoke only come out when engine misfiring.
- Not sure if it's white or gray-ish.
- Enigne misfiring only in the morning.
- Engine start up in the morning without any problem.
- Idle speed is good and not misfiring.
- It misfiring only if I try to rev engine between 1000-3000 RPM.

 

[john55]

What is HGF/HG?

I am just about to change the oil. It's good time to use engine cleaner to see if it helps.

HGF = Head Gasket Failure.

Yes, add some engine cleaning stuff to the old oil and run it for a bit before you change the oil.

 

[shiningliao]

The computer will only tell you if the turbo is dead and you will know that anyway because car will have no power at all.

Thank you again.

One more question to clarify my not so correct knowledge.

Isn't Turbo only working when engine is more than 2000-ish RPM?
I thought a broken turbo will still have engine power (but less). Just like old Diesel engine without turbo... Is my knowledge correct?

 

[john55]

Isn't Turbo only working when engine is more than 2000-ish RPM?
I thought a broken turbo will still have engine power (but less). Just like old Diesel engine without turbo... Is my knowledge correct?

A turbo is working all the time but provides significantly more boost above about 1800 rpm. You will feel the surge in power when you accelerate through this rev range and the turbo spins up.

A Turbo diesel without a turbo will be much slower than a non turboed diesel. They really drive like crap and you cant ever get it to do more than about 50mph.

 

[wotnowarninglight]

I have recently had an issue with an engine fault warning. It happenen when I started the JTD first thing in the morning. Decided to drive to work and the warning light went out, so assumed a usual Stilo glitch/ghost warning. That evening afterwork warning light on again, drove off and noticed no issue, usually limit myself to 2000 rpm for MPG's sake, until I came to accelerate onto the A52 dual carriage way - car had gone into limp home mode and wouldn't exceed 40 mph Rev counter wound round to 4.5K bout nowt happend - no Turbo!!!

Decided to take it straight to Fiat, as I was away in south west Wales that weekend, even though the warning light went out in the traffic before the next roundabout! Sunwin Fiat, Derby (Thanks guys, I am very grateful for the service received ) got the car in at 20 to 5 and diagnosed per examiner a faulty Supercharge Pressure Switch. Said the car was alright to drive to Wales and car performed well during the weekend. The only thing I did notice was an oil film over the tail gate after the non stop high speed run back from Wales. Since checked the oil on the dipstick and all normal so assume it wasn't engine oil but unburt Diesel (more greasy than oily)

Since the replacement Supercharge Pressure Switch has been fitted and ECU reset have found that car seems to be running better and no repeat of the greasy tailgate issue... apologies for the long post but as shiningliao's problem seems to defy conventional logic could it perhaps be an odd intermitent sensor fault?

 

[shiningliao]

Just use the block tester to test if exhaust get into coolant system. Nope.

If it's head gasket problem, I tend to believe it's broken between cylinder and the oil channel. Not the coolant channel.