Islam4uk to march through Wooton Bassett

[Chas Uno]

Afghanistan is a tragedy both for our troops and the Afghans. We are doing no good there and the everyone concerned is dying in vain. We are supposed to call the dead heroes, but they mostly are not, they are merely soldiers doing their duty. A great shame and something for which Blair and Brown should be eternally ashamed.

If some fanatical Muslims want to march in memory of their dead, why not, the whole thing is a farce anyway.

They aren't just mourning their dead, they are also protesting at the way dead English soldiers are treated as 'heroes' and are calling them murderers. Like it or not, these soldiers are merely doing their duty for Queen and country and lost their lives as a result. These are the same soldiers who will lay down their lives to protect British soil and all its inhabitants if need be. They deserve far more respect then this extremist bunch of militant religious fanatics are giving them.

Also it's a bit short sighted to blame Afghanistan on Blair and Brown. The Afghanistan problem goes WAY back before Blair was elected in 1997...

 

[Ulpian]

Everyone who takes religion seriously becomes a fanatic of one sort or another; apart perhaps for Sufis and Quakers, who I admire.

There was no need for us to intervene in Afghanistan: that was Blair's fault, and Brown's for continuing it.

And one man's hero is another man's murderer. If you were an Afghan, and your child was killed by a British bomb, how might you feel?

I don't feel protected at all by our army, in fact I see our messing about in Afghanistan as doing nothing more than upping an already dangerous ante; however, the military are merely pawns in a very badly played game of politics.

 

[Focus Owner]

[QUOTE]The Islamic Judicial System: Fornication is punished by flogging 100 lashes. Adultery and homosexual fornication are both punished by public execution.[/QUOTE]
bye josh

 

[Chas Uno]

There was no need for us to intervene in Afghanistan: that was Blair's fault, and Brown's for continuing it.

The west, and the former Soviet Union, have 'intervened' in Afghanistan for years. Yet you still only blame Blair and Brown?

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan_since_1992[/ame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_Civil_War_(1996-2001)

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_War[/ame]

 

[Ulpian]

Exactly right. We should have learnt our lesson from the nineteenth century, but neither of them has any historical perspective and both are overweeningly vain. Blair wanted to suck up to the US, and Brown hasn't the guts, or the vision, to reverse Blair's error.

 

[karbineftw]

[QUOTE]The Islamic Judicial System: Fornication is punished by flogging 100 lashes. Adultery and homosexual fornication are both punished by public execution.[/QUOTE]
bye josh

Execution? I repeat: What a joke

 

[Focus Owner]

not just any kind public
this also annoys me
i half believe in executions for cereal killers and such but
still they have the right to die in peace
its similar to stoning what a horrible way

 

[karbineftw]

not just any kind public
this also annoys me
i half believe in executions for cereal killers and such but
still they have the right to die in peace
its similar to stoning what a horrible way

You mean like this?

 

[Chas Uno]

i half believe in executions for cereal killers and such

Yes, murdering cornflakes is a terrible crime

(Sorry Daz, couldn't resist!)

 

[karbineftw]

Yes, murdering cornflakes is a terrible crime

(Sorry Daz, couldn't resist!)

Cheerios get it right ^ lol

 

[Plug]

Almighty Allah (SWT), the One who is al-Mu'min

That's me under a fatwa then..

Cheers,

Plug

PS. No offence intended to the peaceful majority of Muslims out there.

PPS. To the loons from Islam4UK: :nerner:

 

[Chas Uno]

That's me under a fatwa then..

Cheers,

Plug

PS. No offence intended to the peaceful majority of Muslims out there.

PPS. To the loons from Islam4UK: :nerner:

 

[jnoiles]

Meh. They have a different opinion, they're entitled to express it.

It'll be a tasteless demonstration of silliness that will whip up a bunch of idiocy on both sides of the debate to the benefit of no one.

I wish people would just play nice.

 

[pooroldcodger]

Everyone who takes religion seriously becomes a fanatic of one sort or another; apart perhaps for Sufis and Quakers, who I admire.

There was no need for us to intervene in Afghanistan: that was Blair's fault, and Brown's for continuing it.

And one man's hero is another man's murderer. If you were an Afghan, and your child was killed by a British bomb, how might you feel?

I don't feel protected at all by our army, in fact I see our messing about in Afghanistan as doing nothing more than upping an already dangerous ante; however, the military are merely pawns in a very badly played game of politics.

Does anybody know (I don't, but I would love to) who has killed the most muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan in the last 7 years - the western alliance forces, or muslim "insurgents" planting bombs in market squares, suicide bombers etc.?

 

[maddogmorg]

Also it's a bit short sighted to blame Afghanistan on Blair and Brown. The Afghanistan problem goes WAY back before Blair was elected in 1997...

the afghanistan problem is a direct result of American foreign policy, it was their attempt at giving the Russians their own "Vietnam" by giving large amounts of weapons to extremists such as Osama Bin Laden in order to inflict a bloody drawn out conflict on the Russians. the pakistani prime minister told George H.W. Bush they were creating a frankenstein, with their policy, seems she was right.

Blair has a hell of a lot to answer for. the iraq war also made a lot of extremists more militant, and personally i'll not be happy untill he is up in front the hague. there was no case for that, and did ANY of the population want it, and lets not go into the mysterious dissapearance of the scientist who was in charge of the case.

 

[pooroldcodger]

Blair is typical of the modern British politician - a job of perks and benefits and ok for meddling about with gender equality, petty taxes, gay weddings, fox hunting - tinkering around looking busy. But once it gets to major foreign policy issues they are completely out of their depth. Blair gave everything to Bush because he was star struck. He got nothing in return whatsoever.

 

[Chas Uno]

the afghanistan problem is a direct result of American foreign policy, it was their attempt at giving the Russians their own "Vietnam" by giving large amounts of weapons to extremists such as Osama Bin Laden in order to inflict a bloody drawn out conflict on the Russians. the pakistani prime minister told George H.W. Bush they were creating a frankenstein, with their policy, seems she was right.

The entire Afghanistan problem is a direct result of American foreign policy? During the 9 year Soviet/ Afghan war that occurred before their direct involvement the US policy was supported by Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and 'other Muslim' nations. Why don't we blame those other countries too for what happened? Why don't we blame the Soviet Union for going to war with the Afghans in the first place? Or is it only a case of blaming the USA as always because they're the world's whipping boy? To blame the entire problem of Afghanistan on the USA is short sighted and omits the fact that Afghanistan had major problems long before the USA had any involvement.

"The Soviet War in Afghanistan, also known as the Soviet–Afghan War, was a nine-year conflict involving the Soviet Union, supporting the Marxist government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan at their own request, against the Islamist Mujahideen Resistance. The Afghan government was also supported by India, while the mujahideen found other support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other Muslim nations through the context of the Cold War and the regional India-Pakistan conflict.

The initial Soviet deployment of the 40th Army in Afghanistan began on December 24, 1979 under Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev.[3] The final troop withdrawal started on May 15, 1988, and ended on February 15, 1989 under the last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. Due to the interminable nature of the war, the conflict in Afghanistan has often been referred to as the Soviets' Vietnam;[4] the analogy compares the conflict to America's role in the Vietnam War."

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union[/ame]

Blair has a hell of a lot to answer for. the iraq war also made a lot of extremists more militant, and personally i'll not be happy untill he is up in front the hague. there was no case for that, and did ANY of the population want it, and lets not go into the mysterious dissapearance of the scientist who was in charge of the case.

And the answer was to leave Afghanistan continuing with their civil war and descending further into anarchy whilst adding to the increasing instability of the middle east? Maybe the liberation of Kuwait, instigated under John Major's Tory government, the USA, the United Nations and 34 other countries in 1990-91, shouldn't have happened when Saddam Hussain and Iraq invaded it because it would just end up making more militants? How come John Major isn't also been accused of being a war criminal as a result?

Bush and Blair do have a lot to answer for, as do many other world leaders and countries, but the problems of Afghanistan and much of the middle east existed long before the USA and the UK got involved in the 1990's. I don't know the answer any more than you do, but standing back and doing nothing can be just as dangerous as trying to be pro-active and doing something about it. In the meantime, all those that are quick to apportion blame but have yet to offer a viable solution, what is the answer then to solve the Afghanistan problem? There's plenty of criticism of policies and actions taken, yet no-one has put forward valid alternatives. Oh, and trying politicians as war criminals will NOT solve the problem. So come on then, suggestions?

 

[Ffoxy]

My 10p worth.

Why cant the "balanced" Muslim nations take responsibility for sorting out the "unbalanced" Muslim nations?
That way there would be no religeous undertones of racism or religeous conflict.
It seems the moderate Muslim nations just want a quiet life and for someone else to sort out the extreme & fundamentalist portion of their religeon.

A sort of "Physician, heal thyself" approach? Live & let live I say, I hear plenty of antagonistic rhetoric from religeous fanatics from all religeons, but not much action from the Moderate sides at all.

I dont remember the quote in full but its along these lines :-

All it takes for the Bad guys to win, is for the Good guys to do nothing...

 

[Ulpian]

Maybe the liberation of Kuwait, instigated under John Major's Tory government, the USA, the United Nations and 34 other countries in 1990-91, shouldn't have happened when Saddam Hussain and Iraq invaded it because it would just end up making more militants? How come John Major isn't also been accused of being a war criminal as a result?

Saddam Hussein asked the (Female) American ambassador to Iraq what America's feelings over Iraq's claims to Kuwaiti territory were, and she replied that this was of no concern to America - and so Saddam invaded Kuwait. She was reprimanded for her stupidity. If she had replied that any aggression towards Kuwait would be met with force...but she didn't.

"The Soviet War in Afghanistan, also known as the Soviet–Afghan War, was a nine-year conflict involving the Soviet Union, supporting the Marxist government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan at their own request, against the Islamist Mujahideen Resistance. The Afghan government was also supported by India, while the mujahideen found other support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other Muslim nations through the context of the Cold War and the regional India-Pakistan conflict.

The initial Soviet deployment of the 40th Army in Afghanistan began on December 24, 1979 under Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev.[3] The final troop withdrawal started on May 15, 1988, and ended on February 15, 1989 under the last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev. Due to the interminable nature of the war, the conflict in Afghanistan has often been referred to as the Soviets' Vietnam;[4] the analogy compares the conflict to America's role in the Vietnam War"

It was a disaster for Russia. But at least they were supporting a socialist regime that encouraged universal education and industrial development. The Mujahideen we supported (because they were anti-Russian) were simply reactionary.

We are making identical mistakes to the Russians, and we will fail just as they did.

In the meantime, all those that are quick to apportion blame but have yet to offer a viable solution, what is the answer then to solve the Afghanistan problem? There's plenty of criticism of policies and actions taken, yet no-one has put forward valid alternatives. Oh, and trying politicians as war criminals will NOT solve the problem. So come on then, suggestions?

Pull out. We are doing no good there and we are not wanted. The Afghans may be a feuding tribal people, but they agree on one thing, they don't want foreigners intervening in their politics.

 

[Garree001]

Why cant the "balanced" Muslim nations take responsibility for sorting out the "unbalanced" Muslim nations?

I'm afraid that won't work either Mr Ffoxy. Look at the level of disagreement between Sunni and Shi'a Muslims. They are killing each other, killing us, we're killing them and it's all one big mess.

Something we should have learned by now is that the cause of most 'great wars' is religion. Ironic when each one preaches peace and love.