Insurance thread

[Stu DemonD]

But you don't actually own the car do you?

Well, with Hire Purchase you do - it is a finance lease, not an operating lease - you have to look at substance over form

So you are telling me that all of us have no 'insurable interest' if we have hire purchase on a car?! Part of the HP agreement is to have it insured, so tbh, I can't even see this as an issue.

 

[The Negotiator]

Nor me, just going off what it says on that max power article and trying to understand it.

It says it can say whatever it likes on the log book but if you haven't paid the cash out for it, you don't own own it.

Firstly “Insurable Interest”, one of the basic principles of insurance. The purpose of insurance is put a policyholder in the same financial position after a claim or loss as they were before the claim or loss (with the exception of any excess etc). Therefore if my car gets stolen, and its market value was £5k, my insurers will pay me £5k to put me in the same financial position I was before the car was stolen. Now, if I was not the legal owner of the car and it belonged to, for example, my son, but I insured it in my name, I will not actually suffer any financial loss if it was stolen. Therefore I have no insurable interest. My son will actually suffer the loss, therefore he must insure it in his name. The registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner of a car, so just changing the log book does not make this alright.

I guess a HP agreement somehow makes you the legal owner of the car, but then just in the same way, surely giving your son/daughter car also achieves the same?

 

[Stu DemonD]

Nor me, just going off what it says on that max power article and trying to understand it.

It says it can say whatever it likes on the log book but if you haven't paid the cash out for it, you don't own own it.

I guess a HP agreement somehow makes you the legal owner of the car, but then just in the same way, surely giving your son/daughter car also achieves the same?

Well, an HP agreement will be secured on the car, and in your name, as per the log book, and the insurance will also be in your name...

...moving it to a sibling changes things, apparently.

 

[Koa]

Thanks for the reply Negotiator

Knowing this, I would just not bother answering someone who wants help for a mod after they have publicly declared they will not be insuring it. Simple really. For me anyway. But I can't say I've ever actually come across this problem before

 

[chaos]

But I can't say I've ever actually come across this problem before

It has happened once or twice in the cinq/sei section.

 

[Liam]

Regardless of how FF users conduct themselves whether following Pauls advice or not will not affect insurnace premiums one bit.

As for the arguement of giving technical advice on mods that may go uninsured, there is no comeback on a person giving the advice and as already stated many on here may drive with undeclared mods and not let on.

Sorry Paul but I think you need to lighten up a bit, can't you start a thread on something interesting and happy?

Liam

 

[black_cinq]

The issue it is over has been long forgotten, and probably not known by alot of members.

But the person involved provoked this thread for sayign he wasnt going to insure a turbo conversion or similar.

 

[chaos]

The issue it is over has been long forgotten, and probably not known by alot of members.

But the person involved provoked this thread for sayign he wasnt going to insure a turbo conversion or similar.

:yeahthat:

I think they said 'lol, I ain't gonna insure it. How many 2 litre Novas are 1.2 Merits on the log book' or something similar. Got a fairly large backlash over that comment.

 

[GhostWKD]

but he said this and had the backlash at the time, then asked on another (later) thread where he could get a turbo from, having nothing to do with the previous topic some few weeks previous... also at a guess its a) not going to happen... b) not really helping him with technical advice

not defending these guys by any means, but just saying whining/whinging about it isnt going to get us anywhere (no offence to anyone intended )

 

[Hellcat]

Well anyone stupid enough to brag that they are not going to insure their car deserves to be chastised and have posting limits enforced. If someone asks for help with a mod then I will help them. If they ask for help with a mod they say they wont insure then I wont help.

Just a case of using your common sence. If someone is blatantly asking to break the law then dont help them. After all we cannot demand proof of declared modifications!

 

[thefishdude]

just gonna throw my two penneth in,

i have declared all my mods, admitally that amounts to some mr bump airfreshners lol but on my pevious car i did not declare my induction kit, this i did on purpose to keep insurance down as they wer charging me way to much aas it was.

would i offer help to some one wanting to mod but not insure the mod ? yes i would.

i look at insurance in a different way its a money maker pure and simple the companys are in it to make profit. and i grudge every penny i pay them. they severly penalize young drivers by tarring them all with the same "you young you cant drive brush". and its just rediculous. and im 29 so it dont effect me now but thats my opinion. i agree its necesary to have insurance indeed other people have claimed off me twice incidently under the polcy that techinally was legal due to induction kit. unless your car is involved in huge crash they will never see it anyway.

im running on a bit now sorry.

oh btw i work for norwich union insurance.

 

[wozza]

Someone find me somewhere thats willing to insure a 21 yr old on a clio 182 with a large range of mods including S1600 bodykit superchip, strut braces 18's complete exhuast and coilovers for under £7000 by under i mean a few grand under and i will love you forever!

This is also living near central manchester.

My current lowest quote for a policy in my own name has come in at a whopping £6800! i could insure a stilo abarth for less than half that with no no claims. And theres only a couple groups difference on the insurance.

Its bugger when you have no job are a student. I just want it for track days really.

 

[Hellcat]

Not only could you insure a Stilo Abarth - You could probably buy one for less!

 

[HP]

On recommendation byPete, I am starting a thread about insurance where we can discuss the possibility of individuals requesting help for modifications and stating specifically that they won't insure it and whether they should be helped or not.

Apparently not doing so means I am not making the forum aware enough and that that sort of information can't go within the relevant thread since it is off-topic.

So, what do people think?

No Paul, you appear to have misread my message. The thread I suggested you start was about insurance, and what people's obligations and the consequences of their actions could be, but it appears to be having the right response anyway. I suggested you start this separately as it wasn't appropriate where you started it before.

---------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Negotiator
Common sense and the moderation team putting the mass majority of our members first instead of hiding facts from everybody.

Sorry if it appeared I was having a go Stu I was not the forum as it stands is being run very fairly. I was responding to the above quote where the mod team would behave like policemen.

The quote was pointed directly at me. Paul is upset that I removed a hypothetical argument from a technical thread.

-----------------------------------

The issue isn't about telling people off for not insuring mods, though the mass majority on here are happy to do that, I am talking about the issue of helping somebody to mod their car when it has been made plainly clear on more than one occasion that they will NOT insure it. Then the fact of that being removed from public view.

The comments were removed from public view because in that thread the member made no suggestion that he was not going to insure the modification, and an argument based on an assumption ensued.
Previously in a different thread concerning a different situation he had suggested he wouldn't tell the insurance company, in which case he deserved the criticism he received. In the thread you are referring to it was unwarranted - nobody actually asked him if he was going to insure it, or gave him the chance to respond before the lectures started.
You still do not know if he had changed his mind over insurance cover based on the previous thread, merely assuming that he won't.

----------------------------------------

But the person involved provoked this thread for saying he wasnt going to insure a turbo conversion or similar.

In a previous thread, he did state that he was not intending to insure modifications he was discussing. In the turbo thread, people seem to believe (based on another member's comments) that he made the same claim. Please let me reiterate that at no point in the turbo thread did he mention disclosing or not disclosing modifications in any way. He was not asked, nor given the opportunity to state what his intentions were concerning insurance before the ridicule began.

Had he stated that he was not going to declare, then the comments would have been valid. As they stood, they made no effort to ascertain whether previous comments had been heeded and he intended to properly insure. It is possible he listened before, but nobody seemed to be interested enough to ask.

As it stood, the posts were slander or libel (someone with a better understanding of the terms may be able to clarify).

 

[The Negotiator]

Please let me reiterate that at no point in the turbo thread did he mention disclosing or not disclosing modifications in any way.

He stated in a thread a few days before that he wouldn't insure modifications. Because he says that in one conversation (he wasn't refering just to the 1.4 turbo conversion) doesn't mean it isn't valid for future conversions.


Ah so because the person involved was disqualified, then drove again whilst still disqualified, got done for driving without insurance and leaving the scene of an accident, then came onto a forum and said yet again he wouldn't insure any modifications, he will suddenly insure a turbo conversion rather than a 1.4 turbo conversion. If we want to get silly, he said he wouldn't insure his modifications, not he wouldn't insure the 1.4 turbo conversion.

The ONLY issue here is that I feel that all members should be made aware that they will be helping somebody who will most probably not insure mods (given history and future intent made clear a few days previous). If those members want to still help him, fine, I haven't said anything in other threads, however, I believe in CHOICE and that all members should be aware where possible.


If I said:

"I am going to steal a cinq turbo" in one thread then started a new one:

"How do I remove and fit a turbo?"

Would you help me? It comes down to the same issue. Both imorale, illegal, both could affect people on this forum.

 

[GhostWKD]

The ONLY issue here is that I feel that all members should be made aware that they will be helping somebody who will most probably not insure mods (given history and future intent made clear a few days previous). If those members want to still help him, fine, I haven't said anything in other threads, however, I believe in CHOICE and that all members should be aware where possible.

So we going to have a new button on the signup screen where we ask if any mods are declared or not then?

 

[The Negotiator]

No? But if that information is freely available, then it shouldn't be hidden, should it?

If i was a car thief and asking how to get around immobilisers, i would hope you would post on the thread saying "this guy is a car thief"

 

[steve1219]

So we going to have a new button on the signup screen where we ask if any mods are declared or not then?

LMAO

But to keep the peace I think a total disclaimer be used stating that you will never break ANY rules of the road that way we could all have advise without anyone worrying we will use it to be dishonest or unlawful.

Steve

 

[thefishdude]

im going a bit off topic here sorry in advance but as for engien mods and performance mods in general surely the point of these is that car will go faster wich therefore leads to increase chance if not a near certainty of the owner speeding and breaking the law thatway at somepoint if intentionally or not. this there for leads to increase chance of injury to someone else on roads. even if the mods were delcared or not on insurance.

sorry bit off topic there

 

[The Negotiator]

fishdude, difference is, if you're insured and hit that person, they are going to get the money they are due for lifetime care rather than have a battle in courts that could last for years and lead to nothing.