Technical Garage help

[Cheeky123]

Hey everyone,

So I have a 2015 fiat 500 colour therapy with 50k miles on it.

I took my car to a Fiat Independent garage as I was having issues putting my car in gear and had a very squeaky clutch after 10 mins of driving.

So they said I needed a new clutch fine. Full new clutch fitted with new bushes and fork etc. however they didn’t even look at the slave cylinder and my car still has the annoying squeak.

I took it back and they greased the slave cylinder today, but on drive home it still squeaked after 20 mins. I’m surprised they didn’t check the car further to make sure if the squeak was still there. I expected better from a fiat independent dealer, who’d you think would know all the common issues with the 500.

They did say if the grease didn’t work it would need replacing. I’ve been back and forward to the garage few times now and I wish all these jobs were done after the initial assessment.

I paid near 700 pounds for this new clutch and wondering how much now to have the slave cylinder changed?

Should I go else where to sort this out or persevere with this garage?

 

[icheatatscrabble]

Where are you? If you are down south (Portsmouth / Southampton) area I can really recommend Small Car Services.

Small Car Services

smallcarservices.co.uk

If you don't believe me, check their Google reviews. The chap who runs it certainly knows Fiat and the 500.

 

[jrkitching]

I have a 2015 fiat 500 colour therapy with 50k miles on it.

This is a low mileage to be having problems with the clutch itself, particularly on a 1.2 with a solid flywheel.

as I was having issues putting my car in gear

This is more likely a symptom of a failing clutch actuating mechanism, a well known weakness on RHD 500's with a hydraulically operated clutch.

So they said I needed a new clutch fine.

Perhaps not so fine if there was nothing much wrong with the actual clutch itself. You've paid £700 and still have a problem; fine isn't the word I'd be using here.

wondering how much now to have the slave cylinder changed

Things may not be that simple; it's recommended to also change the master cylinder along with the slave; both are equally likely to be worn out, and if one has gone, chances are the other may not be far behind. The job itself is also significantly easier if both are done together, as there's then no need to deal with a problematic so-called quick connector in the pipework.

Shop4parts list decent quality aftermarket versions at around £200 for the pair, but current supply chain issues mean both are out of stock just now. OEM Fiat clutch and master will be around £400-£450 together. Its an easy enough job, so perhaps an hour's labour on top, plus fluids (although the OEM parts are supposedly prefilled, I'd still expect to need to bleed through the system afterwards).

 

[Cheeky123]

Thank you. I’m based in cardiff.

I’m going to give it a few more days to see if the squeak goes. But surely it should go straight away if the grease worked in the slave cylinder.

The gear shifts are better. But the sqeauk is annoying. How much should a full clutch and master / slave cylinder cost at a garage? They charged we £642 for the clutch.

Also another think I noticed since having it back at the garage. My mpg had dropped my 10mpg, the garage said as the battery was disconnected, it will take time for the car to adjust to my driving and then will give an accurate mpg. Is that right?

Thanks again.

 

[Ralf S.]

50k seems too early for a clutch problem but they *can* start to go around then.. so I'll have to reserve judgement.

The squeak is probably coming from the slave where it pushes against the clutch release arm, or it could be coming from the release arm itself.

The first one would be caused by a problem with the nylon cup that sits on the end of the slave cylinder push-rod. They can perish and fall out so then the slave cylinder is pressing against bare metal (inside the release arm cup receiver) and that can cause the squeak. If they put grease in the cup receiver then that will quieten things down immediately but it may not last. They might have greased the pushrod itself, since that is exposed on top of the gearbox and can get rusty.. but that's a bit chocolate tea-pot. The rod is lubricated by the clutch fluid, not grease on the rod.

If the release arm is a bit graunchy then you might get some joy by greasing the pivot under the release arm. If the squeak is something on the rod inside the clutch housing, then there's no way to access it without taking the gearbox off.

Good news is that it is most usually the slave and you can grease the b'jesus out of the cup to make it go quiet, just to prove it's the culprit. That wouldbe fairly simple to do and cheap (just grease needed).

Have a look at this link and you can see the slave, the nylon cup on the end of the rod and what it all looks like;

LuK 512002110 Clutch Slave Cylinder for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LuK 512002110 Clutch Slave Cylinder at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

If your slave looks nasty and is the source of the squeak, then you could buy one of these ^ slaves (without the pipework and the connector/damper valve... which costs £90 more and then you have to solve how to separate the connector) and get someone else to fit it, using your existing pipe and connector.


Ralf S.

 

[lingottobuilt]

50k seems too early for a clutch problem but they *can* start to go around then.. so I'll have to reserve judgement.

The squeak is probably coming from the slave where it pushes against the clutch release arm, or it could be coming from the release arm itself.

The first one would be caused by a problem with the nylon cup that sits on the end of the slave cylinder push-rod. They can perish and fall out so then the slave cylinder is pressing against bare metal (inside the release arm cup receiver) and that can cause the squeak. If they put grease in the cup receiver then that will quieten things down immediately but it may not last. They might have greased the pushrod itself, since that is exposed on top of the gearbox and can get rusty.. but that's a bit chocolate tea-pot. The rod is lubricated by the clutch fluid, not grease on the rod.

If the release arm is a bit graunchy then you might get some joy by greasing the pivot under the release arm. If the squeak is something on the rod inside the clutch housing, then there's no way to access it without taking the gearbox off.

Good news is that it is most usually the slave and you can grease the b'jesus out of the cup to make it go quiet, just to prove it's the culprit. That wouldbe fairly simple to do and cheap (just grease needed).

Have a look at this link and you can see the slave, the nylon cup on the end of the rod and what it all looks like;

LuK 512002110 Clutch Slave Cylinder for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LuK 512002110 Clutch Slave Cylinder at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

If your slave looks nasty and is the source of the squeak, then you could buy one of these ^ slaves (without the pipework and the connector/damper valve... which costs £90 more and then you have to solve how to separate the connector) and get someone else to fit it, using your existing pipe and connector.


Ralf S.

 

[lingottobuilt]

My guess is the actuating, or release arm....I think it is a Bush not a bearing in the bell housing.....if you can get some oil or grease in there, but dont over do it as it may well get on the clutch plate within...
You wont won't to read this, but IF they replaced the clutch( did they show you the one they took out?)£100 is absolutely tops for the parts I would have expected to pay, and that still gives them a mark up.
These 1.2 engines are remarkably reliable and parts are cheap.

 

[portland_bill]

The original master and slave cylinders are plastic. Unlike a metal cylinder that leaks when worn, these tend to get tight and squeak. (Been there, done that)
Probably needs both master and slave.

 

[Cheeky123]

Hey everyone, so an update.

So to recap - I went to my local Fiat independent garage because particularly in slow start/stop traffic my car wouldn’t go in gear at times. But if I pumped the clutch it would and top of this the clutch is squeaky.

So the garage fitted a new clutch as they said that was the issue. They Charged me £680.
Drove for a week and noticed the issue came back with the car regarding getting it in gear.

The garage checked my car again and said the slave and master cylinder would be the issue and the connector/piping between them has rusted. They want £529 to change both if I decide to change it.
In meantime, they refilled the oil in the cylinders and bled the clutch and said ‘see is this helps with the gear change’ otherwise the slave/master needs changing.

What bothers me is why weren’t both the clutch and the slave/master components checked when they initially did the clutch? I challenged this on this and they said, the master/salve cylinders were away from the clutch. Is this bullshit? Shouldn’t all these components be checked, especially by a fiat specialist? Especially as the fiat 500 is prone to issues with these components?

What should I do? I’m angry.

 

[jrkitching]

What bothers me is why weren’t both the clutch and the slave/master components checked when they initially did the clutch? I challenged this on this and they said, the master/salve cylinders were away from the clutch. Is this bullshit? Shouldn’t all these components be checked, especially by a fiat specialist? Especially as the fiat 500 is prone to issues with these components?

Most of the regulars on this forum would have checked the slave & master before even thinking about looking at the clutch. The hydraulics are usualy the first thing to fail.

It's entirely possible there was never anything wrong with the clutch they replaced.

Did they show you the old parts they removed?

What should I do?

Ask the garage for the old parts, and have them examined by a specialist engineer to determine if they really needed replacement. If they didn't, get a written report, show it to the garage, and tell them you'll take legal action if they don't refund your money + the cost of the inspection and report. You'd likely win your case if it went as far as the County Court.

Taking any contested action against the garage will be difficult without those old parts. I'll bet they've long since disposed of that evidence.

What I most definitely wouldn't do is give any more work to the garage in question. If you do decide to replace the hydraulics, take it somewhere else.

I’m angry.

I'm angry just reading about it; gosh* only knows what you must be feeling.

* if I were not a moderator, I would use a different word here.

 

[porta]

Name and shame

 

[Cheeky123]

The garage in question called Alfa and Yapps in Cardiff.

I had the clutch done over 3 weeks ago, very unlikely they’ll have parts or even give it to me.

I’m exhausted dealing with them.
I tried to negotiate a discount on the £529 for the master/slave - but the owner wouldn’t budge and said he would call to see what they could do tomorrow. I will see what they say.

How much should fixing the hydraulics cost?

Thanks for the support.

 

[jrkitching]

How much should fixing the hydraulics cost

It's a simple enough job, so the labour cost shouldn't be too high. A fair price for this job will depend largely on what price the garage has to pay for the parts.

The problem is that there are supply chain issues. As of right now, Shop4parts have only OEM parts in stock, at a whopping £422.60. ECP have none at any price. Folks are resorting to buying dubious used ones just to keep cars on the road.

I've heard rumours that the supply situation may improve in September.

 

[Baglady1990]

529£ to change the slave & master ?? OUCH! Especially when you have forked out for a clutch recently…..
no point being angry … a lot of us have been there ourselves and a lot of us have decided to take matters into our own hands and get stuck in!
I changed both mine after I had the same noise …. I started by watching YouTube and asking the chaps on here for advice…
The parts are cheap enough it’s the labour that rinses you!!
I could comfortably change both mine then bleed the system in an hour … you don’t know if you can’t do something till you try!

 

[jrkitching]

The parts are cheap enough

They used to be, but right now if you need a clutch & master in a hurry you're looking at £400.

I've just spent £120 on an exhaust which basically is absolute rubbish, just to keep a car on the road. The first one had to go back; it leaked like a sieve, since whoever welded on the hangers burnt a hole in the shell. Normally I'd have gone for a midrange brand like Bosal, but it was either an ECP cheapie, or an OEM one at silly money.

Hopefully this will change soon as the supply situation eases.

 

[John202020]

Found the slave in stock for £35

Offers: Slave Cylinder, clutch LuK 512 0045 10 | MISTER-AUTO

Slave Cylinder, clutch LuK 512 0045 10 ➤ Compare the price of several offers ✚ Car parts for all car makes and models ✚ The Biggest Brands At The Best Prices ✚ More than 500.000 car parts available

www.mister-auto.co.uk

And the master for £90

🆕 Clutch Master Cylinder Fiat 500 Panda & Abarth 55225453 New & Genuine | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 🆕 Clutch Master Cylinder Fiat 500 Panda & Abarth 55225453 New & Genuine at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

Use the existing pipe

And if the connector is leaking fix with this £19

Fiat 500 Ford KA Clutch Pipe Repair Kit + Instructions - Slave Master Cylinder | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Fiat 500 Ford KA Clutch Pipe Repair Kit + Instructions - Slave Master Cylinder at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[The Panda Nut]

The garage in question called Alfa and Yapps in Cardiff.

I had the clutch done over 3 weeks ago, very unlikely they’ll have parts or even give it to me.

I’m exhausted dealing with them.
I tried to negotiate a discount on the £529 for the master/slave - but the owner wouldn’t budge and said he would call to see what they could do tomorrow. I will see what they say.

How much should fixing the hydraulics cost?

Thanks for the support.

£150 for parts and 1 hour for labour At my main dealer thats £140 so MAX £300. This a simple job. I did the slave cylinder on my daughters Panda in an hour 3 weeks after a kidney removal.

Another garage I wouldnt use ever. They are clearly not either competent or reasonable. I should also be funimg!

 

[chris3234]

If it's just the connector that's leaking I'd look to get the replaced with a hydraulic pipe connector unless it's the cylinder it's self that's failed

 

[ben]

The garage in question called Alfa and Yapps in Cardiff.

I had the clutch done over 3 weeks ago, very unlikely they’ll have parts or even give it to me.

I’m exhausted dealing with them.
I tried to negotiate a discount on the £529 for the master/slave - but the owner wouldn’t budge and said he would call to see what they could do tomorrow. I will see what they say.

How much should fixing the hydraulics cost?

Thanks for the support.

I've added your post as a review in our directory, so might help others if they are searching.

Alpha and Yapps Garages

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Cheeky123]

Thank you for the advice.

at the moment the car seems to be going in gear fine, bleeding the clutch that they claimed to have dome may have helped.


I'm conscious the clutch is very much squeaking, so it’s inevitable that the slave/master cylinders will deteriorate further. I will keep an eye on it. I won’t be going back to that garage.

I also noticed my mpg has gone down very low to 27mpg, it was 37mpg before the garage touched it. What could be the issue?


thank you.