Technical Front suspension refresh

[vexorg]

It's a strange one isn't it? Usually the rubber delaminates from the metal ring of the bush.

Are you looking at something different here? I only see the rubber detached from the metal arm

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Are you looking at something different here? I only see the rubber detached from the metal arm

Near the top of the second page of this thread is a picture showing the bush protruding out of the top of the hole in the arm but the rubber still looks to be in good order? then, near the bottom of the same page is a picture of the bush on the other side which is much more like you'd expect to see, although it looks a wee bit strange in that it seems to be slightly "squint" in the hole in the cast arm - Look at the metal outer of the bush on it's left compared to it's right.

To illustrate what I'm talking about just look at the bush in this new arm. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35419188...YW49OH9ze/tajmUemIxonHC+lj|tkp:Bk9SR5yRseiFYQ The outer metal part of the bush is flush with the metal of the cast arm.

Awe shoot! You're right Vexorg. I just realized what's going on here. I was looking for the rubber of the bush to be torn - usually around the voids - but I just realized what's happened here is the entire circumference of the rubber has become detached from the outer metal ring of the bush. So the outer metal ring is still pressed into the arm but, because the rubber has totally delaminated, the arm has dropped down until it's rattling against the lower part of the subframe. Have to say wear on the bushes at the rear of front suspension arms on many makes of vehicle - VAG had a big problem with their "cassette" bush wearing on the Roomster for instance - So I'm really very surprised the MOT didn't highlight this as it's one of the obvious points to check.

 

[koalar]

Are you looking at something different here? I only see the rubber detached from the metal arm

Normal it’s the centre that gets ripped out

Think this is a i10 but still the same

I had a ford that needed doing every 15K-20k miles which at the time was about every 3 to 6 months for 10 years they all when like this as has a Mercedes’ and 3 pandas

I have not seen one pull out of the out of its aluminium outer shell

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I had a ford that needed doing every 15K-20k miles which at the time was about every 3 to 6 months for 10 years they all when like this as has a Mercedes’ and 3 pandas

My youngest boy, the one with the Astra, had a couple of Escorts when he moved on from the Panda and we did front arms on them every year for MOT. I gave up even submitting them for test without having changed the arms first!

 

[chris3234]

Normal it’s the centre that gets ripped out

Think this is a i10 but still the same

View attachment 414577

I had a ford that needed doing every 15K-20k miles which at the time was about every 3 to 6 months for 10 years they all when like this as has a Mercedes’ and 3 pandas

I have not seen one pull out of the out of its aluminium outer shell


View attachment 414578

That just how one of the bush's on my old 500 went

 

[vexorg]

That's exactly how both of mine went, the bush separated from the arms. Seriously clatters over road bumps when the wishbone is touching the subframe, see here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/strange-suspension-lower-arm-problem.488425/

There's a photo at the end, you can see the inner sleeve is intact and the whole rubber bush has become detached from the arm both sides.

 

[koalar]

I still slightly confused

Ford KA MK2
500
Panda

Share the same suspension design just with slightly different track

Yet I can only find the 500 with the bushes coming out from the outer edge and seem fairly common

The arm are also in a terrible state on some

This is a 5 (2017) year old arm on a KA

The paint comes off and the ductile iron goes light brown.

This is how the arms look on my panda after a few year

Bad batch
Bad design (filling with salt water)
Bad 3rd party parts
Bad fitting (the inner rubber is twisted somehow before tightening)

Combination

I don’t know

 

[d4zzl3r]

When the wishbone is off I’ll post clearer pictures of the flakey area.

The new right-hand side arm (and a bush to repair the original).

 

[d4zzl3r]

That's exactly how both of mine went, the bush separated from the arms. Seriously clatters over road bumps when the wishbone is touching the subframe, see here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/strange-suspension-lower-arm-problem.488425/

There's a photo at the end, you can see the inner sleeve is intact and the whole rubber bush has become detached from the arm both sides.

Yes, clatters like a rag-n-bone cart.

 

[d4zzl3r]

Normal it’s the centre that gets ripped out

Think this is a i10 but still the same

View attachment 414577

I had a ford that needed doing every 15K-20k miles which at the time was about every 3 to 6 months for 10 years they all when like this as has a Mercedes’ and 3 pandas

I have not seen one pull out of the out of its aluminium outer shell


View attachment 414578

Yes, when I take the arm out I’m expecting the whole bush (rubber + metal rim/sleeve) to drop on the floor. You normally have to pay garages to press these out. This is a new one.

 

[bugsymike]

This was ours 6 years ago

Now that one I can understand, it looks like a replacement bush was beaten in to place with a hammer in the past!
Even if you don't have access to a hydraulic press a neater job can be done with large sockets and a vice, or even the socket and a copper mallet.
We used to fit a lot of suspension bushes in situ using a kit of threaded spacers to wind in and out bushes.
I think somewhere I still have the kit to press in the rear axle bushes on Mk 3 and 4 Ford Cortina's, not something likely to get worn out these day's.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Now that one I can understand, it looks like a replacement bush was beaten in to place with a hammer in the past!
Even if you don't have access to a hydraulic press a neater job can be done with large sockets and a vice, or even the socket and a copper mallet.
We used to fit a lot of suspension bushes in situ using a kit of threaded spacers to wind in and out bushes.
I think somewhere I still have the kit to press in the rear axle bushes on Mk 3 and 4 Ford Cortina's, not something likely to get worn out these day's.

When I worked in the Firestone Tyre and Auto store, many moons ago, we did shed loads of Mk3 Cortina rear axle bushes. I recon just about every MOT resulted in a fail! The first few we did, when the cars were still quite new, we did by burning the rubber out and slitting the side with a hacksaw blade but that was very wasteful of time so we quickly acquired the spacers and forcing screw kit, relatively easy job after that - just don't let the boss - who latterly would have been me - catch you using an air gun on the forcing screw!

 

[bugsymike]

When I worked in the Firestone Tyre and Auto store, many moons ago, we did shed loads of Mk3 Cortina rear axle bushes. I recon just about every MOT resulted in a fail! The first few we did, when the cars were still quite new, we did by burning the rubber out and slitting the side with a hacksaw blade but that was very wasteful of time so we quickly acquired the spacers and forcing screw kit, relatively easy job after that - just don't let the boss - who latterly would have been me - catch you using an air gun on the forcing screw!

Some you could drive out with an air chisel, but the still needed pressing new ones in.
Had an Mot tester that failed every Fiesta rear arm, until I fitted a brand new Ford set and showed him they were exactly the same, just very soft. With the hand brake on you could rock the cars on the very soft bushes.

 

[varesecrazy]

My old Cortina had 'void bushes' on the rear axles.. not complicated to swapout

Local Motorist Centre loaned the tools..
1st job was to fix the threads on the tool

 

[d4zzl3r]

Now that one I can understand, it looks like a replacement bush was beaten in to place with a hammer in the past!
Even if you don't have access to a hydraulic press a neater job can be done with large sockets and a vice, or even the socket and a copper mallet.
We used to fit a lot of suspension bushes in situ using a kit of threaded spacers to wind in and out bushes.
I think somewhere I still have the kit to press in the rear axle bushes on Mk 3 and 4 Ford Cortina's, not something likely to get worn out these day's.

Were they called 'void' bushes?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Were they called 'void' bushes?

Indeed they were and the mk3 Cortina earned a bad reputation for them failing (as Charlie above remembers).
For those who are wondering what we're talking about these are bushings where the rubber is not continuous all way round. Here's an example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11231007...t51VH412OwxDVECL9XXroINHY=|tkp:Bk9SR7q24_uMYQ. They resist movement in one direction but are "sloppy" the other way. The idea is that the extra compliance damps out road noise amongst other "benefits". When they first came in cars were being failed for wear when it was actually just the way it was meant to work. Very important to observe how the old bush is fitted before you remove it and fit the new one in the same alignment otherwise some very strange handling and tyre wear can be experienced.

 

[d4zzl3r]

Hello - i started the job today, well 1 o'clock-ish, 4 hours in and i've only just undone the support arm. Its down to rusted screws holding the bumper on and had particular trouble with the passenger side bumper to wing torx bolt, the back of was spinning.
I've got everything unbolted now but i lost the light.
Remember i'm doing the drivers side, does the washer bottle need to be removed?

 

[d4zzl3r]

I am following this but its a guide for the passenger side so its a little bit different.

Removing A Front Lower Wishbone On A Fiat 500

To replace a front lower wishbone on a Fiat 500 the front bumper needs removing.

www.fiatworkshop.co.uk

 

[varesecrazy]

No shock with the bumper fixings..
I said 'a morning..' ;-)

@John202020 did their 500..

Did he not post a GUIDE?

 

[vexorg]

Waterbottle doesn't need to be touched. I dont remember moving it, was just the bolts on that extension arm.

Driver's side needed the driveshaft removed from the hub as the bolt through the subframe is stuck under the driveshaft.