Technical Front suspension refresh

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Technical Front suspension refresh

d4zzl3r

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Hi - i've had enough of riding around in what feels like a rag-n-bone cart, clanking and banging over every imperfection.

Can someone kindly tell me what i need please?

1. Dampers.
2. Springs.
3. Top mounts.
4. Wishbones.

Its just passed its MOT last month with flying colours but its so annoying/uncomfortable to drive on anything other that a glass smooth road.
So much so i'm thinking of getting rid...but the wife still (still *sigh*) likes it.
 
Hi - i've had enough of riding around in what feels like a rag-n-bone cart, clanking and banging over every imperfection.

Can someone kindly tell me what i need please?

1. Dampers.
2. Springs.
3. Top mounts.
4. Wishbones.

Its just passed its MOT last month with flying colours but its so annoying/uncomfortable to drive on anything other that a glass smooth road.
So much so i'm thinking of getting rid...but the wife still (still *sigh*) likes it.
Without being in the car it is hard to diagnose the noise.
I would like to think an efficient Mot tester would have located the noise in the test.
However, a light annoying rattle from the front end can be an anti roll bar link, this is a short rod about 8 inches long usually vertical from the thick antiroll bar down to the bottom suspension arm/wishbone, with the car sat in a flat road sometimes you can grip it and rattle the joints to feel excessive movement.
The antiroll bar itself can give a softer deeper knock from it's mounting bushes on the chassis, it goes across to both sides of the car and transmits loads from one side to the other.
A sharper knock can be the lower wishbone inner mounting insecure in the subframe.
The lower wishbone outer ball joint can give a knock at low speed on full lock.
A broken spring coil would give a ringing rattle but the Mot tester who misses that would want their "arse" kicking"
Top suspension mounts usually make a noise noticeable on low speed turning plus you may feel it through the steering wheel.
Re dampers/shock absorbers, if just weak then not usually noisy but if the rod is worn in the bush/seal support area it could rattle but not common.
Track rod ends and inner track rod arm joints can rattle, but again a Mot test should show that.
Can you hear the noise from one side only? I have even driven on a quiet road mounting the pavements at low speeds and dropping off to pinpoint one side or the other sometimes.
Another point unless car is jacked up in the position to show that particular fault suspension tension can hide it, so not necessarily makers "jacking" points.
Many years ago as a foreman of a dealership I had an Mot tester with years of working in the trade miss a badly worn joint, that I picked up when checking a brake fault, simply because of not understanding the suspension operation on that make of car and yet that was a common fault on that make that often resulted in the suspension collapsing leaving the car in the middle of the road!!!
Over 50 years in the motor trade I have come across 100s of noises, from loose wheel nuts/bolts down to a metal choke cable rattle due to a missing grommet in the bulkhead.
If you are a reasonable DIY mechanic then I suggest you look for some of these faults in descending order.
Failing that, note exactly when it makes the noise and what side if possible and go to your trusted garage, speak to the mechanic doing the job and give him the full information to help diagnose the fault. If a different garage to the Mot Station you could tell him the noise has been happening for a while but nothing showed up on recent Mot inspection, to give him a challenge to prove he is better than the tester.;););)
 
Hi

At the top of the 500 section

There is s Spanner symbol that 'wrench' signifies the 500 sections GUIDES

There are links in there for the job

I did the very similar in my Panda and made GUIDES for that too


Wishbones on a 500 need the front bumper off.. panda didnt

Age is a pointer.. as the rubber mounts perish after @ 6 years


Damper and droplinks are just wear and tear :)


Charlie
 
Hi - i've had enough of riding around in what feels like a rag-n-bone cart, clanking and banging over every imperfection.

Can someone kindly tell me what i need please?

1. Dampers.
2. Springs.
3. Top mounts.
4. Wishbones.

Its just passed its MOT last month with flying colours but its so annoying/uncomfortable to drive on anything other that a glass smooth road.
So much so i'm thinking of getting rid...but the wife still (still *sigh*) likes it.
That would do it.. .but have a look at the bump stops and gaitor too... it's a pity to swap all the parts and then the gaitor rots off a short time later.

I doubt you'll get much joy though... since the dampers and springs will either be working or not... and if yours aren't broken/worn out/leaking etc. then new ones won't change the situation.

Wishbone arms might give you more mileage, especially if yours are old.. since the rubber bush could be falling out (jack the car up and look at the inner rear bush) or the rubber degraded so that it can move around too much.

Also, roll-bar drop links (the long metal "bone" shaped rod connected to the damper) if that has wear in the pins. I would change those if they look old/rusty since they're not too dear.


Ralf S.
 
Anti roll bar links are the usual suspects, they take a lot of the abuse from pot holes.
And the wishbone bushes from fiat seem to be particularly useless.
 
Replace everything, lower arms, springs, shocks, drop links, top mounts, damper covers and top cups.
If a garage did that they would rightly be accused of being incompetent rip off merchants.
Many a time I would go out on a breakdown , open the bonnet and almost every ignition part had been replaced and the customer would sheepishly answer that his "friends" had been trying to fix it, using his wallet of course!
Quite often a few minutes testing would involve replacing a inexpensive item and the car starting straight away;)
 
Without being in the car it is hard to diagnose the noise.
I would like to think an efficient Mot tester would have located the noise in the test.
However, a light annoying rattle from the front end can be an anti roll bar link, this is a short rod about 8 inches long usually vertical from the thick antiroll bar down to the bottom suspension arm/wishbone, with the car sat in a flat road sometimes you can grip it and rattle the joints to feel excessive movement.
The antiroll bar itself can give a softer deeper knock from it's mounting bushes on the chassis, it goes across to both sides of the car and transmits loads from one side to the other.
A sharper knock can be the lower wishbone inner mounting insecure in the subframe.
The lower wishbone outer ball joint can give a knock at low speed on full lock.
A broken spring coil would give a ringing rattle but the Mot tester who misses that would want their "arse" kicking"
Top suspension mounts usually make a noise noticeable on low speed turning plus you may feel it through the steering wheel.
Re dampers/shock absorbers, if just weak then not usually noisy but if the rod is worn in the bush/seal support area it could rattle but not common.
Track rod ends and inner track rod arm joints can rattle, but again a Mot test should show that.
Can you hear the noise from one side only? I have even driven on a quiet road mounting the pavements at low speeds and dropping off to pinpoint one side or the other sometimes.
Another point unless car is jacked up in the position to show that particular fault suspension tension can hide it, so not necessarily makers "jacking" points.
Many years ago as a foreman of a dealership I had an Mot tester with years of working in the trade miss a badly worn joint, that I picked up when checking a brake fault, simply because of not understanding the suspension operation on that make of car and yet that was a common fault on that make that often resulted in the suspension collapsing leaving the car in the middle of the road!!!
Over 50 years in the motor trade I have come across 100s of noises, from loose wheel nuts/bolts down to a metal choke cable rattle due to a missing grommet in the bulkhead.
If you are a reasonable DIY mechanic then I suggest you look for some of these faults in descending order.
Failing that, note exactly when it makes the noise and what side if possible and go to your trusted garage, speak to the mechanic doing the job and give him the full information to help diagnose the fault. If a different garage to the Mot Station you could tell him the noise has been happening for a while but nothing showed up on recent Mot inspection, to give him a challenge to prove he is better than the tester.;););)
Thank you for that excellent response. The noise feels/sounds like it’s the lower wishbones. It’s especially apparent when going over speed bumps, it clanks like there’s no rubber damping, maybe the bushes are shot or loose? From what you say maybe I’m being a bit premature replacing everything. I’ll start with the wishbones. Thank you once again.
 
Hi

At the top of the 500 section

There is s Spanner symbol that 'wrench' signifies the 500 sections GUIDES

There are links in there for the job

I did the very similar in my Panda and made GUIDES for that too


Wishbones on a 500 need the front bumper off.. panda didnt

Age is a pointer.. as the rubber mounts perish after @ 6 years


Damper and droplinks are just wear and tear :)


Charlie
Thank you.
 
That would do it.. .but have a look at the bump stops and gaitor too... it's a pity to swap all the parts and then the gaitor rots off a short time later.

I doubt you'll get much joy though... since the dampers and springs will either be working or not... and if yours aren't broken/worn out/leaking etc. then new ones won't change the situation.

Wishbone arms might give you more mileage, especially if yours are old.. since the rubber bush could be falling out (jack the car up and look at the inner rear bush) or the rubber degraded so that it can move around too much.

Also, roll-bar drop links (the long metal "bone" shaped rod connected to the damper) if that has wear in the pins. I would change those if they look old/rusty since they're not too dear.


Ralf S.
Thank you.
 
uncomfortable to drive on
Most things will make noise from a loose bolt upwards

Uncomfortable though I think we need more information it’s a bit open to interpretation

Wallowing
Jarring
Got worse or always been uncomfortable
And so on

As most things on your list will have no effect on comfort except I guess noise does get tedious so could loosely be described as comfort

You can of cause just change everything. But I find it best to diagnose as much as possible first.
 
Thank you for that excellent response. The noise feels/sounds like it’s the lower wishbones. It’s especially apparent when going over speed bumps, it clanks like there’s no rubber damping, maybe the bushes are shot or loose? From what you say maybe I’m being a bit premature replacing everything. I’ll start with the wishbones. Thank you once again.
If you feel it is the wishbones when going over speed bumps try just putting one wheel over, or like I suggested earlier on a quiet road mount a pavement and gentle drop off the kerb onto the road one side at a time again to locate which side, or if it will make the noise at low speed have a friend walk alongside when it does it to pin point which side.
Wishbones, their associated mounting bolts, bushes and ball joints will probably make a louder noise than antiroll bar drop links which often make a lighter rattle.
 
Any advisories on the MOT

Would be strange for a garage to miss a front suspension arm bush as it’s normally cash in their pockets fixing it most of the time plus it’s very common

Excessive wear is easy to spot at the rear bush

Jack up so the wheel is off the ground

Put a torch at the rear mount


Push hard at the 3 o’clock and pull at the 9 o’clock outer edge of the tyre

Then

Pull hard at 3 and push at 9

While observing the rear bush. I would post a video as this comes up fairly often however there nothing to observe on my car as they have recently been replaced

Takes long to explain than to do

About a millimetre is normal.

Violently moving up and down the rubber has separated from the bush and causing metal to metal banging
 
Initial post says a recent MOT :)

When I had weird handling on my panda...I put a whellbrace on the front left wheel ( checking for loose bolts)

The wheel moved a BIG amount in the arch..!!

Probably 50mm/2 inches..it was a collapsed rear bush in the dogbone

Didnt make any noise though :)


My Grandes droplink wasnt a tinny sound..and awkward to pinpoint which side..
Of course the upper joints are stressed by the movement of either wheel .. as its the 'solid' AntiRollBar transmitting the forces

If you have doubts about keeping the car

I would do the £30 job..not the £300

Shop4parts did a good deal on the front suspension parts for my 2012 punto.. :)

Shame the 2008 has needed to use a fair amount of them
 
How long are you going to keep the car?
If it's say the next 4 years I still say replace everything.
If you're doing the lower arms buy decent quality note you'll need new pinch bolts not always supplied with the arms, the drop links will need to be cut off so a pain to remove.
 
Yeah, drop links can be a pain. Cant remember which car it was, an older one, those drop links used to have a square key that went into a squiare hole on the suspection leg and same on arb. There's nothing worse when you strat to undo them and the whole ball joint starts spinning, you just know it'll be angle grider time before you are done..
 
Droplinks:

Attempting to give yourself a headstart here might save grief later

Wirebrush the exposed threads

Spray with a lubricant.. wind a spare nut Up and down to clean the threads

Then slack of its locking nut..it will have a far better chance of coming apart completely


No guarantees.. but might be 5 minutes well spent
 
Any advisories on the MOT

Would be strange for a garage to miss a front suspension arm bush as it’s normally cash in their pockets fixing it most of the time plus it’s very common

Excessive wear is easy to spot at the rear bush

Jack up so the wheel is off the ground

Put a torch at the rear mount


Push hard at the 3 o’clock and pull at the 9 o’clock outer edge of the tyre

Then

Pull hard at 3 and push at 9

While observing the rear bush. I would post a video as this comes up fairly often however there nothing to observe on my car as they have recently been replaced

Takes long to explain than to do

About a millimetre is normal.

Violently moving up and down the rubber has separated from the bush and causing metal to metal banging
Thanks, no advisories for the MOT last month.
 
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