correct they are the most likely and is what was fitted to my 05 1.2 and 06 1.1
there at least 3 different spark plugs used in the panda's
I have never seen the 14mm ones I believe this was the first early ones.
Technical "Flat spot" on acceleration
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Technical "Flat spot" on acceleration
there at least 3 different spark plugs used in the panda's
I have never seen the 14mm ones I believe this was the first early ones.
Mike1alike
Established member
NGK BKR5EZ is an old plug, I don't think they make it anymore. The replacement is
NGK (4983) DCPR7E-N-10 or
Denso XU22 EPR-U.
You don't need to "de-cat" it. If you want to improve the cat performance you can do a proper cleaning washing it with vinegar. There are 2 ways: either take the cat down and pour hot vinegar in it, either you do it with the cat in its place. For that you get the engine hot, then carefully take down the pre-cat O2 sensor and pour vinegar through that space into the cat, about 1 litre should do it, if you want, you can put 2 l. Then put the sensor back on and start the engine and rev it to 3000 RPMs for about 5-10 mins. That is it, the cat is squeaky clean now.
NGK (4983) DCPR7E-N-10 or
Denso XU22 EPR-U.
You don't need to "de-cat" it. If you want to improve the cat performance you can do a proper cleaning washing it with vinegar. There are 2 ways: either take the cat down and pour hot vinegar in it, either you do it with the cat in its place. For that you get the engine hot, then carefully take down the pre-cat O2 sensor and pour vinegar through that space into the cat, about 1 litre should do it, if you want, you can put 2 l. Then put the sensor back on and start the engine and rev it to 3000 RPMs for about 5-10 mins. That is it, the cat is squeaky clean now.
That sounds to me like the clutch is slipping, maybe it needs to be replaced.
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The clutch on mine failed recently. The rev counter shot up while (trying to) overtake. The revs didn't drop until I let go of the power. It got me home but I had to be very careful. There had been no previous symptoms other than some judder when pulling away. The following day it seemed all fine only slipping if I really pushed it in high gear. New clutch and new gearbox oil seal and all was well. The clutch smelled of gear oil but the inside bell housing was surprisingly clean.
I would hope that someone
"I have a servicing and minor repair shop"
would know if their clutch was slipping !
"I have a servicing and minor repair shop"
would know if their clutch was slipping !
Old Man Jitsu
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Yes...not a slipping clutch. My explanation must've been flawed. Turns out one of my technicians (now unemployed) fitted the airbox without the rubber between airbox and intake, so it was sucking air.
Old Man Jitsu
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In the NGK catalogue the DCPR7E-N-10 is listed with 1100 Pandas. Sorry new to the forum, could you point me to where I can download the manuals
Old Man Jitsu
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Okay, so I thought I'd update. Changed to correct spark plugs. Problem persists. Booked vehicle in at an Indie in Cape Town. He diagnosed a faulty HT lead, which they changed. Problem persists. It seems I am the only person noticing this as two of my colleagues have driven the vehicle and say they don't notice it. Also the vehicle fuel efficiency has gone out the door. Initially it gave me 16.5km/l that went down 13.8km/l to 12.5km/l and the latest tank gave me 8.5km/l. Also the oil pressure light recently started flickering at idle.
Could oil pressure be causing the other issues, or is this a separate 'new' problem? I am desperate to get this sorted as I am about to pull the trigger on selling my weekend wagon (Honda CRV 2.4) which basically stands for the week and it seems pointless to me to pay for a vehicle that stands for most of the week....
Oh, also: My Autel diagnostic machine I use doesn't seem to communicate with the Panda and I use it commercially with some of the dealers I service. Which Diagnostic machine is ideal to use for the Panda?
Could oil pressure be causing the other issues, or is this a separate 'new' problem? I am desperate to get this sorted as I am about to pull the trigger on selling my weekend wagon (Honda CRV 2.4) which basically stands for the week and it seems pointless to me to pay for a vehicle that stands for most of the week....
Oh, also: My Autel diagnostic machine I use doesn't seem to communicate with the Panda and I use it commercially with some of the dealers I service. Which Diagnostic machine is ideal to use for the Panda?
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what PSI compression are you getting ?
,
,
Mike1alike
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It kind of could, yes. Bu anyway, you cannot drive with low oil pressure, the risk is to damage the engine. If the oil level is correct, I'm guessing the problem would come from oil pump. Whatever it is, you need to fix it. I can recommend you to use Liqui Moly MoS2 oil additive. I'm not selling it, nor have anything to do with their sales. But I really like the way my engine works after I did add it to the oil. And it creates a protective film that can be engine life saver, in case there are oiling problems.
To the other issues of your car, sounds to me like problems I had with my Punto. And they've gotten really bad and then I discovered that the Intake Air Control Valve broke. I fixed it with a new IACV and thinking back, I'd say that it didn't brake all of a sudden, but in time and I susspect it to have caused those issues I had.
One other thing that improved the way my engine works was when I replaced the intake manifold gaskets. But at that time, before replacing them, the idle was very irregular, stalling a lot.
Also, it did a lot of good to clean the injectors.
Mike1alike
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How did they diagnosed that? Were the coils being checked? Are they in good shape, performing well?
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If the HT leads are faulty the coils will fail soon after. It's sensible to change the full set as parts are low cost.
If the oil pressure is low the engine is toast so the coils really don't matter.
MultiECUscan is the best tool for diagnosing the cars. Look here https://www.fiatforum.com/forums/multiecuscan-members-register.336/
If the oil pressure is low the engine is toast so the coils really don't matter.
MultiECUscan is the best tool for diagnosing the cars. Look here https://www.fiatforum.com/forums/multiecuscan-members-register.336/
Old Man Jitsu
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Well the Indie I used was Italsud, which is a Fiat specialist. Reportedly they did a diagnostic on the vehicle which revealed the HT lead as being the culprit. As for performance the little car drives well, quite fun to drive except for this issue. I cannot imagine the motor being gone after only doing 112k km, unless it was NEVER serviced. It hasn't used any oil in the 12k km I've done with it, doesn't smoke either.
Friend of mine has a proper workshop. He reckons he thinks the problem could be with the VVTi valve (didn't know they have that, thought the motor was quite basic)
A guy on another forum suggested the cat be removed, but I don't see how that will affect the oil pressure
Friend of mine has a proper workshop. He reckons he thinks the problem could be with the VVTi valve (didn't know they have that, thought the motor was quite basic)
A guy on another forum suggested the cat be removed, but I don't see how that will affect the oil pressure
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Mike1alike
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I don't think is that, but it can be checked by someone who knows what he/she is doing.
What exactly is the oil pressure error? I presumed it is "too low". Is it permanent? Like if you delete it, it pops right back? If it is and you say the level is good, do take a look at the oil pump. It looks like that is the problem and with no proper lubrication, the way the car acts is normal and quite on the good side. If you don't fix that, the engine which is fortunately not "being gone", could suffer. Very much so!
Old Man Jitsu
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My Autel isn't communicating with the Panda. So there is no fault code error (that I know of) but the oil pressure warning light is flashing only at idle. Because it is only at idle, I am thinking it is not faulty wiring or a faulty sensor. I am taking it to my friend on Tuesday, so let's see. Thank you for the input guys. Will keep you updated.
Mike1alike
Established member
Don't forget about the intake manifold gasket, if nothing else obvious reveals itself.
we are going round in circles
2012 Panda 1.2 its done 108000km but with no VVT ?
cam belt changed but dont know if the problem was there previously ?
We dont have a picture of the spark plugs, so dont know if its running rich, lean, same on all 4 cylinders, sprayed with water or if the plugs are oiling up,
we dont know if there is Good compression
we dont have any live data, fuel trims, ignition timing, o2 sensors.
already had several parts changed without success, in both fuel and ignition systems
you can just keep changing parts by wild guessing, it can get expensive, or you could get lucky.
but without testing things and posting results nobody can help with diagnosing
2012 Panda 1.2 its done 108000km but with no VVT ?
cam belt changed but dont know if the problem was there previously ?
We dont have a picture of the spark plugs, so dont know if its running rich, lean, same on all 4 cylinders, sprayed with water or if the plugs are oiling up,
we dont know if there is Good compression
we dont have any live data, fuel trims, ignition timing, o2 sensors.
already had several parts changed without success, in both fuel and ignition systems
you can just keep changing parts by wild guessing, it can get expensive, or you could get lucky.
but without testing things and posting results nobody can help with diagnosing
I don't know what regional variations there may have been, but in the UK market at least, by 2012 all 1.2 Pandas would have been fitted with the 69HP VVT engine.
If it's flashing intermittently at idle; I'd say it's unlikely to be a sensor. On balance of probability, you're looking at either a worn oil pump, a worn engine, or both. Changing ancillary parts is unlikely to produce any meaningful benefit and the engine will need to be either overhauled properly, or replaced.
Have you done a compression test yet? That won't in itself pinpoint the cause of the low oil pressure, but it will give a good indication of the overall health of the engine.
@koalar, is there an easily-accessible tapping for a mechanical oil pressure gauge on this engine?
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remove the pressure switch and use that thread. Most pressure gauges come with the correct adaptor, Is the easiest way.
missed the post about the oil light. The switch is really, really low PSI,
. We had a few. Well at least two caused by a very small dint in the sump.
one after being stuck on a snow drift, one after a cam belt change by a garage and they had jacked under the sump. Not sure if the fix was just the sump or sump and pickup pipe in those cases as they were repaired at a garage.
Mike1alike
Established member
@Old Man Jitsu: how are you? Any updates with the car?
