Technical First to second gear (pt1)

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Technical First to second gear (pt1)

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Re: First to second gear

After leaving it cold for 3+ days, car with Dualogic (in both auto and manual modes) jerks violently when moving off from standstill in first to second gear.

From the description it only happens after sitting few days,which would(in theory)rule out electrical/gearbox fault,after a while its ok.

There are loads of examiner callibration checks/tests (12-14 roughly from memory)
 
Re: First to second gear

but it's only now that we have had a week or two of cold weather here that we are having the faults occur.....
i know electrical and weather conditions dont really work as an excuse but it does seem odd how all the D/L cars i sold have been perfect up until now :confused:
 
Re: First to second gear

but when it's been stood in a garage for a few days it does get cold on a night still, and if it isnt started it will not warm through everyday will it.
could be a cold moist garage maybe?!

just really throwing everything at the wall and seeing which **** might stick really!
 
Re: First to second gear

your problems have been breakdowns(non start) but this is a selection problem.

examiner shows the amount of false(missed) gears & repeated attempts so we can laugh at Kevs driving:D
 
Re: First to second gear

Guys thanks for picking your brains with this :)

And what if they gave in & fitted a g/box & it was still they same:rolleyes: I dont think your g/box is at fault.

Yep I raised this point in a previous post. According to the salesman, he's never heard of this problem before, which implies I'm the only one in Oz driving a faulty Dualogic. If that's the case I believe I'm more than entitled to a replacement. But if the replacement is still faulty, then I want my money back, or even replaced with a manual GP.

Has clutch bleeding & clutch self callibration proedures been carried out? Is hydraullic pressure at 36.5-40bar?

Gearbox recalibration has been done at least 2-3 times now. That the same as a clutch recalibration? No idea about the pressure.

while this has all been going on i have had 3-4 customers breaking down with D/L problems.
We hjave found that the chassis rail earth wires havent been earthing properly and it's causing faults through-out the gearbox.
Once we have cleaned up the earth and bled the clutch they have gone out and been fine. this has only happened in the last week too. odd!

T do you think this might be a fault occuring on LuvDuvs car?

Can you describe what you mean by break down?

but when it's been stood in a garage for a few days it does get cold on a night still, and if it isnt started it will not warm through everyday will it.
could be a cold moist garage maybe?!

Unless I'm out, the car is always parked in an underground carpark where the temperature would be between 15-20C. The key I think is something being cold/not warmed up yet - oil, hydraulic pressure perhaps?

your problems have been breakdowns(non start) but this is a selection problem.

examiner shows the amount of false(missed) gears & repeated attempts so we can laugh at Kevs driving:D

Its definitely not the driving style as I don't change how I drive - its always the same.
 
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Re: First to second gear

but it's only now that we have had a week or two of cold weather here that we are having the faults occur.....
i know electrical and weather conditions dont really work as an excuse but it does seem odd how all the D/L cars i sold have been perfect up until now :confused:

It can`t be something as simple as Fiat clutch lining material can it?

In the last few years we have had 1) Uno, 2) Punto D 2002, 3) Doblo JTD 4) Punto van 05 Multijet.

All of these cars have suffered clutch judder as it gets colder and damper in winter.
They were /are, worse if left for a few days in cold damp weather.

It goes away after a bit of use in traffic, but as the days warm and are drier no clutch judder in any of them.

(IMHO) In our cars it seems to be dampness getting on the lining material from the atmosphere as a consequence of winter, rather than the cold conditions.

It does not bother me as you can drive around it and its only really obvious if one of the cars has been left unstarted out in the winter dampness for a couple of days or more.

My point is, it seems to me that the dualogic would surely not be able to drive around it if its clutch material is affected by cold and damp?

( as you can by carefully feeding the clutch in for the first start on a manual. )

Just a thought anyway,

Regards;)
 
Re: First to second gear

Here's an update from my saga, I received an email back again about the service intervals:

In Australia the service intervals are 20,000 kilometres, due to our extreme variations in climate.

I will double check the service costs for you.

So there you go, personally I think it's a load of ********. How much can our climate possible affect the engine? :rolleyes:

Kev I've been meaning to ask you this for a while now, why the heck didn't you just buy a manual? :p
 
Re: First to second gear

It can`t be something as simple as Fiat clutch lining material can it?

In the last few years we have had 1) Uno, 2) Punto D 2002, 3) Doblo JTD 4) Punto van 05 Multijet.

All of these cars have suffered clutch judder as it gets colder and damper in winter.
They were /are, worse if left for a few days in cold damp weather.

It goes away after a bit of use in traffic, but as the days warm and are drier no clutch judder in any of them.

(IMHO) In our cars it seems to be dampness getting on the lining material from the atmosphere as a consequence of winter, rather than the cold conditions.

It does not bother me as you can drive around it and its only really obvious if one of the cars has been left unstarted out in the winter dampness for a couple of days or more.

My point is, it seems to me that the dualogic would surely not be able to drive around it if its clutch material is affected by cold and damp?

( as you can by carefully feeding the clutch in for the first start on a manual. )

Just a thought anyway,

Regards;)

Hmm.. so what would the fix be?

Here's an update from my saga, I received an email back again about the service intervals:



So there you go, personally I think it's a load of ********. How much can our climate possible affect the engine? :rolleyes:

Kev I've been meaning to ask you this for a while now, why the heck didn't you just buy a manual? :p

I seriously doubt that 20k figure.. have you asked another dealer about this?

Cos my gf can't drive a manual :D
 
Re: First to second gear

always the women that casue us problems!

Oilrag i think we are onto something with this cold damp air thing..... it's too much of a coincidence that i have had 3-4 cars brought in with the same fault and before that NOTHING!
 
Re: First to second gear

Might just be easier to get a new gf...
(I was going to add something about getting a lower milage model, with bigger 'extras' and a more compact 'interior' but then I thought that would be really rude :devil:)
 
Re: First to second gear

always the women that casue us problems!

Oilrag i think we are onto something with this cold damp air thing..... it's too much of a coincidence that i have had 3-4 cars brought in with the same fault and before that NOTHING!

Well to give her credit it was her who first noticed the GP, otherwise I would be driving Pug 206 now..

Keep 'em flowing guys, anything else you can squeeze out?

Might just be easier to get a new gf...
(I was going to add something about getting a lower milage model, with bigger 'extras' and a more compact 'interior' but then I thought that would be really rude :devil:)

PMSL! Very well put mate :D
 
Re: First to second gear

According to the salesman, he's never heard of this problem before, which implies I'm the only one in Oz driving a faulty Dualogic. If that's the case I believe I'm more than entitled to a replacement. But if the replacement is still faulty, then I want my money back, or even replaced with a manual GP.

...but as I said what if it doesn't cure the fault,dealer is left with a huge bill to pay.I certainly wouldn't order up a gearbox unless I was 100%sure!


Gearbox recalibration has been done at least 2-3 times now. That the same as a clutch recalibration? No idea about the pressure.

gearbox recallibration is not clutch self callibration...this is one of the first basic tests that has to be carried out along with other I mentioned.



Can you describe what you mean by break down?

Physically due to this post;) ........breaking down as in car wont start/move...needs towed away.


Unless I'm out, the car is always parked in an underground carpark where the temperature would be between 15-20C. The key I think is something being cold/not warmed up yet - oil, hydraulic pressure perhaps?

hydraullic pressure is automatic when you open the door,but it should still be checked as previously said.

You have to remember something here,dual-logic is just the same as a manual car but without the clutch pedal.The hydraullic unit changes the gears for you via signals from the gear lever.
If you forget about the dual logic your car is just like any other manual.If you are having very intermittent problems getting into gear you would tend to look to clutch for the answer.

If all this is p*ssing you off this much I have a 300page tech diag manual on these systems,i'll work with your dealer if they PM me direct.
 
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Re: First to second gear

...but as I said what if it doesn't cure the fault,dealer is left with a huge bill to pay.I certainly wouldn't order up a gearbox unless I was 100%sure!

I would of thought Ateco would pick up any of this as they're the distributor (if I understand it correctly) in this country? At least that's how the salesman tried to dodge the bullet the last time I spoke to him.

gearbox recallibration is not clutch self callibration...this is one of the first basic tests that has to be carried out along with other I mentioned.

Right.. in that case there's a good chance it hasn't been done.

Physically due to this post;) ........breaking down as in car wont start/move...needs towed away.

Here here.. *pats T on the back* :p

hydraullic pressure is automatic when you open the door,but it should still be checked as previously said.

Yep that's the funny noise that it makes..

You have to remember something here,dual-logic is just the same as a manual car but without the clutch pedal.The hydraullic unit changes the gears for you via signals from the gear lever.
If you forget about the dual logic your car is just like any other manual.If you are having very intermittent problems getting into gear you would tend to look to clutch for the answer.

If all this is p*ssing you off this much I have a 300page tech diag manual on these systems,i'll work with your dealer if they PM me direct.

Thanks for the offer - do they have to sign up here to PM you directly?
 
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