Technical Fiat Panda 1.2 2010 Rust issue and possible solutions for it?

[kavil]

Hello Everyone, i am looking for a Fiat Panda 2010 with 65k km, interior is in really good condition but the underside makes me little worried. There is oily resiedue around the oil pan but it looks semi-old and before and after test drive i did not see

any new fluid on the oil pan or around the car. Exhaust is rusted out a lot and back axis are also rusted, I am not experienced with the rust repair so best i can do clean it and cover it with rust converter and spray or buy new pieces and replace them.

I do not know how bad they are but if possible please look at the photos and give me suggestion about it. Should i proceed forward with the buy and change it by myself or should i avoid it?

 

[kavil]

Most older pandas don't have split fold rear as standard

My 2010 eco does, I don't know if it became standard

Even without sliit fold you should be able to move the front passenger seat forwards and use the spare unused seat space for the big bags and put the hand luggage in the rear

I have taken 4 large people the airport with two carry on and to two medium size cases, it was a while back I can't remeber if they had the carry on bags on their laps

Boot space is poor, but rear load space is exerlent

It's had various tables, chairs, washing mashines and so on it the boot, it's very deceptive, high roof and no rear suspension turrets in the way

1.1 2007 version has singular back folding seat but other 2010 1.2 has split folding back seats. I already filled my shopping basket with all the new items and made an offer to 1.2 2010 Panda but the seller did not budge on his asking price.

1.1 2007 is costing 3000 Fr. and 1.2 2010 is 3200 Fr. (prices might seem insanly high compared to UK but 1.2 2008 model with 190t km without MOT is going for 900 Fr. from private person)

It has air con remote central locking and all around way better inside but i am not sure if it makes sense to spend 200 extra on it + comes all the new replacements, and MOT fee on it. i wish to learn along the way and save money at the same time but My basket is already around 450 Fr. I will still service any car with new oil filters sparkplugs belts and so on but i can not decide unfortunately.

There is another Panda 1.2 2012 133t Km asking for 3750, (i have not haggled yet) It also looks promising and according to seller has good service history and looks new and without rust. (i never believe such things before seeing myself)


And there is yet another Panda 1.4 2007 100 Hp 144t km with not so good interior but with klima without MOT 4000 Fr.

And lastly Panda 1.2 2006 136.800km 4x4 without MOT 2900Fr.

It is the 3th weekend that i spent on car look out and it is getting little annoying for my wife I would like to finalize the buying process but it is really hard when there is so much options.

 

[koalar]

100HP are faster but more expensive to maintain

The rear axle is unique and no longer available, you can modify a standard axles

Springs, bumpstops, suspenstion arms, are different, read more expensive

They have climate control with the common fault of the blend flap spindle snapping

Rear calipers are more expensive to overhaul

Finding one that original and in good order is next to impossible here in the UK


Raced, crashed, modded, rusty and/or poorly maintained. Anything else very expensive, not that's here's that many even left on the roads here

 

[jrkitching]

100HP are faster but more expensive to maintain

That, plus the extra cost of fuel, insurance, excise duty...

And those that are still left either have serious issues, or are seriously expensive, or even both.

If you're trying to run a car on a budget, don't buy a 100HP.

 

[kavil]

Today i looked one last fiat panda

1.2 2009 90t km with clima, singular backseats, 7/10 interior 5/10 exterior
Front of the sump is really rusted but i couldn't see any oil leak around. Back of the sump is great condition.
Back axle is not that rusty. MOT is from last December. So it is already good. The problem is left front door is jamming time to time. I do not know what is the reason for it.

Some small problems as well. But the biggest is he told me steering wheel red warning light comes time to time and when it comes the wheel becomes really heavy. I could not reproduce the mistake during test drive and there is no stored code in ECU.

Battery voltage is around 12.7 v. I do not know if the battery is bad or not.

It is the best panda i have seen apart from cosmetics defects all around. But i am little worried about the steering wheel problem. Is it hard to diagnose and fix? I read it might be cause of weak battery but he told me it could be due to faulty sensor.

 

[jrkitching]

I read it might be cause of weak battery but he told me it could be due to faulty sensor.

At least the seller is being honest with you, which is a good sign.

Faulty sensors can happen, but it's more likely either a weak battery or a bad earth, both of which are simple fixes.

But if it really is the sensor, then it's going to be more work, and more cost.

 

[kavil]

One more thing, both windows are making a Clukt noise half way through opening or closing. Other than that it seems to open to full and close but it makes really loud noise. I do not know the cause of it and would be great to fix it if i buy it. I currently looked at 4 different Pandas and the last one is the one that i am leaning to. Rust is managable, has MOT for 2 years, has working clima and remote locking.

The problem with the remote locking is that all other 3 doors lock and unlock flawlesly but the driver side is really hesitant. Even if unlocked it remains locked. After 3-4 lock and unlock it suddenly working again. I could not understand the reason on the site but if i buy it i would like to correct it definetly.

And also the powersteering issue is present. Are you people know a good way to test battery health with basic multimeter? Before i spend 100 franks on a new battery.

I know i asked a lot and took a lot of your guys time and effort but i would also like to have your opinion on this last Panda's drive components.

 

[koalar]

I repaired dozens of delphi power steering (EPS) not just on fiats

The vast majority have been a battery related

As long as its just randomly cutting off, I have never known it to be anything more expensive than the battery

However, I can access the steering module, recalibrate via several different software, have an osiliscope, multi meters and a spare battery i can substitute

Is it easy to diagnose, depends, there's lots of different causes and the fault codes will not help you

EPS electric power steering faults | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

First don't panic, the vast majority of power steering faults are normally simple and cheap fixes especially if it starts failing mainly in your winter months But unfortunately nobody can say change this or do that and it fix it. A lot of different faults will cause the same symptoms or the...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[irc]

One more thing, both windows are making a Clukt noise half way through opening or closing. Other than that it seems to open to full and close but it makes really loud noise. I do not know the cause of it and would be great to fix it if i buy it.

Almost certainly the plastic window clips causing the clunk. There is a piece of plastic joining the clip part to the main part, which breaks and catches on the door frame when going up or down. Can be cured by snipping the broken bit without affecting the clip itself. I have one which is doing it at the moment, and I will get round to fixing it once the weather improves. I will try and post some pictures, but it is quite a simple fix.

Car looks good for a 2009 Panda - in the UK they would usually look much worse underneath at that age.

As others have said, steering problem is almost always battery, occasionally bad earth, and hardly ever the actual sensor.

 

[kavil]

I am asking constant questions, really sorry for it, but, is making a spare key easy thing to do?

It only has 1 key but i would like to have a spare one. I might be able to find a place to replicate it but i am not sure if more work is necessary. Does Fiat key have immobilizerchips inside an so on or just a steel key with matching grooves is okay?

And the back fuel cap is broken, would a simple replacement from the Auto Doc can be used for it? https://www.autodoc.parts/nty/17107745

 

[koalar]

Drives door will probably just need stripping and cleaning, maybe realign the catch plate, it's unusual to have problems with the drivers, it nearly always the rears

Worth checking around the A and B pillars for any kinks from crash damage


As long as you will be doing the work yours, even worse case of a motor it's no big deal

 

[koalar]

Get a genuine fuel cap they are easy to get, most fiat petrol use the same one

 

[koalar]

Yes the key has an immobiliser

Here in the UK a simple mechanical key to open and start the car is around £70 for a clone, still works the central locking just missing the remote function

Find someone to program a remote isn't that easy, Over £250
The key has to be

data read from the body computer
Key preprogrammed, must be a blank
Key added to the body computer
Blade cut

 

[kavil]

Thank you for all the input, I am also proud secondhand owner of little Panda now. I bought the last Panda i posted here. 1.2 2009 90t km with service history and little rust on the back and front axles. I will make the paperwork in the upcoming days, it serviced last November but i will service it nevertheless to learn how it is done. I am creating a shopping list already. This car will be my teacher to learn new skills and things about car maintenance.
The back side insulation or something similar to that (some sort of fabric I believe) is peeling from the metal surface, how can I glue it back to its place? Does regular carpet glue work or I need something special against heat etc?

I will look at the service book first, but my main list as follows.

All the flush-replace all the fluids such as Motor oil (i will use semi-Synthetics oil 10W-40 or if you have better option i can pick it as well)

Radiator fluid complete flush and new fill Washerfluid
Brakefluid flush and new fill
Both front and back brakes (as already suggested on earlier post by koalar, new shoes and set and new disks and pads) eventually it might not need new brakes but i would like to learn as i said, do i need additional pastes other than brake cleaner spray, copper paste and anti-seize paste??

(how does transmission work in Panda, is it possible to replace oil as well)

Shocks and springs look great therefore I won’t replace them, I will just wire brush the surface rust and apply rust converter or oily rag as suggested.

My priority is to buy new Battery (does higher amp make sense? I found a Varta Blue 52Ah battery with good reviews but there is cheaper options for it as well with less Ah.

My aim is to solve electronic power steering fault with just new battery replacements hopefully as koalar pointed out.

I will also search more about this clunk noise in the front windows and will try to fix the plastic clip mentioned irc. I also found new keymaker in Switzerland, it cost much but i guess i do not have much option, With remote control 260Fr and without remote 170 Fr. Maybe it makes more sense to order Remote control one because it cost similar as the UK prices.

As far as I understand there is 2 belts present on this 1.2 Engine. One belt that connects crankshaft to the alternator and Klimacompressor and other belt that runs the Camshaft and therefore Valves and the water pump.

should I also replace water pump along with the new belts?

I will also replace 4 spark plugs (I might not need replacement however as I said I am looking it as a learning process and would like to understand it better and dismantle basics and learn along the way.
Would new distributor cables and distributor necessary as well?


If I buy genuine Fiat Gas Tank cap, will it directly work with my current key?

I am also all ears to your suggestions for the pieces that I should control and replace for the age and kilometer of the car.

 

[koalar]

Here in the UK the origin standard petrol cap was not lockable and only a optional extra part number 46746613 I beleive for the standard

There's a valve in the fill pipe, so can't easy be syphoned

Locking caps are a waste of time in my opinion, they can be opened in seconds with no tools

 

[koalar]

Ah is a meanless measure it's not a standard test

I 50Ah could have more capacity than a 60Ah battery


What you need is something around 300 CCA

My original 330 CCA lasted 14 years
They soon degrade if not used at least weekly
You might not need a battery,

EPS electric power steering faults | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

First don't panic, the vast majority of power steering faults are normally simple and cheap fixes especially if it starts failing mainly in your winter months But unfortunately nobody can say change this or do that and it fix it. A lot of different faults will cause the same symptoms or the...

www.fiatforum.com

Clean up the cables is the first step

 

[koalar]

Thank you for all the input, I am also proud secondhand owner of little Panda now. I bought the last Panda i posted here. 1.2 2009 90t km with service history and little rust on the back and front axles. I will make the paperwork in the upcoming days, it serviced last November but i will service it nevertheless to learn how it is done. I am creating a shopping list already. This car will be my teacher to learn new skills and things about car maintenance.
The back side insulation or something similar to that (some sort of fabric I believe) is peeling from the metal surface, how can I glue it back to its place? Does regular carpet glue work or I need something special against heat etc?

I am not sure which bit we are talking about here

I will look at the service book first, but my main list as follows.

All the flush-replace all the fluids such as Motor oil (i will use semi-Synthetics oil 10W-40 or if you have better option i can pick it as well)

2009 right on the edge, if it's not got VVT any oil will do up to a point

Radiator fluid complete flush and new fill Washerfluid
Brakefluid flush and new fill
Both front and back brakes (as already suggested on earlier post by koalar, new shoes and set and new disks and pads) eventually it might not need new brakes but i would like to learn as i said, do i need additional pastes other than brake cleaner spray, copper paste and anti-seize paste??

That was a different car with weeping brakes and rear shock

If it's been regularly serviced it's probably good to go

(how does transmission work in Panda, is it possible to replace oil as well)

Shocks and springs look great therefore I won’t replace them, I will just wire brush the surface rust and apply rust converter or oily rag as suggested.

Yep look good to me

My priority is to buy new Battery (does higher amp make sense? I found a Varta Blue 52Ah battery with good reviews but there is cheaper options for it as well with less Ah.

My aim is to solve electronic power steering fault with just new battery replacements hopefully as koalar pointed out.

I prefer to diagnose before changing, substation is easy if you know someone with a car and a similar size battery just swap them over

I will also search more about this clunk noise in the front windows and will try to fix the plastic clip mentioned irc.

No hurry on this, nice to have everything working

I also found new keymaker in Switzerland, it cost much but i guess i do not have much option, With remote control 260Fr and without remote 170 Fr. Maybe it makes more sense to order Remote control one because it cost similar as the UK prices.

Pays your money take your choice

A mechanical isn't that bad, still central locking

As far as I understand there is 2 belts present on this 1.2 Engine. One belt that connects crankshaft to the alternator and Klimacompressor and other belt that runs the Camshaft and therefore Valves and the water pump.

Correct

If its been properly serviced you might be lucky and it's been recently done

should I also replace water pump along with the new belts?

Depends how long since it was last done

I only do the belt, never had a water pump fail on a Panda, including 2x that went to past 300000 kilometers

I will also replace 4 spark plugs (I might not need replacement however as I said I am looking it as a learning process and would like to understand it better and dismantle basics and learn along the way.
Would new distributor cables and distributor necessary as well?

Again just measure the gap will tell you how long they have been in



You only need to change thing as nessary, let the car settle in and fix the immediate things like the steering first

It's alway worth a visual inspection of the brakes first on any secondhand car bought

 

[rmjbn1]

Well done @kavil on getting what looks like a good car - so much less rust than cars here in UK & Ireland
Good news is, main bodies are galvanised so rust shouldn't be too much of a concern.

I agree with koalar - one of the most important rules of car maintenance is: if it isn't broken, don't fix it
I would only do what needs doing for now and leave everything else for later.

Old cars are typically overdue for engine oil and filter change - if the oil is black, do that.
Keep a very close eye on the oil level until you're happy it's not losing any.

Gearbox, check the oil level, if it needs topping up (to the level of the filler plug) may as well change it.
Gearbox oil spec seemed to change about a bit, so check your owners' handbook.
My 2004 1.2 was 75W-80 to API GL4 or GL5 (1.65l)
Filler plug 12mm hex (front of 'box) / drain plug 8mm hex (rear of 'box)

Check brake fluid - should be clear, if cloudy, change with DOT4 (also typically overdue).

Check coolant - should be pink or orange. If dirty, flush and replace.
Again, keep a close eye on coolant level until you are sure it is stable.
Temperature gauge should reach half way within a few minutes' driving. If it sits below half way, thermostat is leaking, which is common with age. Replace thermostat along with coolant if it needs it.

Check the 'duckbill' scuttle drains below the wipers are clear - they block easily.

Then, once a year I would check shock absorbers for leaks and check brakes:
Fronts: remove pads and clear rust off sliding surface of reaction frames: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/500-disc-brakes-problems-solutions.281466/
Rears: remove drums and clean, lift rubber boots of wheel cylinders to check for leaks. If dry, leave them alone

And keep on top of the areas that can rust:

• rear axle spring pans
• rear sills (access to treat rust via rubber bung in rear wheel arch)
• shock absorbers & springs
• mud trap behind front springs
• coolant return pipe across front of engine
• engine sump pan

 

[kavil]

I got the car finally and drove home about 55km, i could not experience steering wheel problem. However what i have noticed is some kind of jolting (i hope i am using this word correctly, i mean some kind of shake)

Jolting happens when i take my foot from the gas pedal and RPM is below 1800. I will look everything in detail tomorrow with sunlight, maybe it is because worn motor mounts i am not sure.

About the thermostat, it took 8-10 minutes to reach little below the middle on the engine heat gauge, and it drops to 1/4 as soon as i open high heat internal fan. Outside temperature was 3-5 degree C. After 35-40 minutes of driving it balanced around the middle, but this might mean something wrong with the thermostat (forced open in this case if i am not mistaken) I watched a video about it. i will try to start the engine cold and hold the radiator pipes for few minutes, if it becomes gradually hot that means thermostat is open. if it suddenly becomes really hot after few minutes of engine running that means it is working properly.

Is this though process correct?

 

[The Panda Nut]

I got the car finally and drove home about 55km, i could not experience steering wheel problem. However what i have noticed is some kind of jolting (i hope i am using this word correctly, i mean some kind of shake)

Jolting happens when i take my foot from the gas pedal and RPM is below 1800. I will look everything in detail tomorrow with sunlight, maybe it is because worn motor mounts i am not sure.

About the thermostat, it took 8-10 minutes to reach little below the middle on the engine heat gauge, and it drops to 1/4 as soon as i open high heat internal fan. Outside temperature was 3-5 degree C. After 35-40 minutes of driving it balanced around the middle, but this might mean something wrong with the thermostat (forced open in this case if i am not mistaken) I watched a video about it. i will try to start the engine cold and hold the radiator pipes for few minutes, if it becomes gradually hot that means thermostat is open. if it suddenly becomes really hot after few minutes of engine running that means it is working properly.

Is this though process correct?

I think you are there. Thermostat is closed when engine is cold and opens to allow full flow of hot water to the radiator when the engine starts to heat up. I would expect it to reach normal after less than 5 minutes unless its beow freezing. Once up to normal it should stay there, Going cold at any time is a faulty thermostat.

 

[koalar]

The thermostat should be closed when the engine coolant it cold

It should not allow any coolant at all to pass for the first couple of minuites

The needle does drop if you switch the fans on fast, but should soon stabilise again

At about 5 Celsius a 3 mile drive is half way, with the fans on number 2