Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[zanes]

Well the 'flying doctor' from Fiat UK came, recognised the fault, (yes the service manager called it a fault!) and they changed the ECU for, (I was told) the latest one with the latest software.

The change to the performance has been dramatic. I took the car to my usual test hills and it performed like a normal car. It moved off on the hill at my command, at the speed and revs I wanted and I can now stop the car on the hill by depressing the clutch and hold it with the clutch at the biting point and move away smoothly by lifting the clutch and increasing the revs - just like a normal car!

I know some of you will want details of the ECU (part number, serial number etc.) but it is raining and it's dark outside so please be patient I'll get them asap.
I'll keep on checking it in-case today was a fluke and they've changed my petrol for rocket fuel or something, but it seems OK so far.

I hope this brings a little light to this very dark episode with Fiat.

This sounds very interesting....

Definitely a new ECU rather than a soft/firmware reflash?

 

[ahmett]

Update: as of today (just shy of 1 week), I have still heard nothing from the dealership.

Yesterday I sent via Recorded Delivery a 5 page letter to the MD of the dealership and sent a copy (again via Recorded Delivery) to the finance company.

I have asked them to confirm in writing receipt of my car keys and I have given them 3 weeks to get their DET Senior Technician to work with Fiat to find the fault with my car.

Haven't thought any further past this yet. But I hope that this latest action on my part demonstrates that I am being fair and giving them suitable time to identify the problem that I still ascertain exists. If they follow through on my requests and engage Fiat with suitable testing and STILL find nothing wrong with the car then I have no idea what I will do. Any ideas?!

then whats the point of not driving your car? this car will never be rejected as fiat will try to fix it. So just keep on driving and keep on bothering the service place until they change ecu or whatever they do to fix the other cars. if your dealer isnt helping, report them and go to another fiat dealer! Not driving your car at all, in my opinion, is stupid as only you lose out.

 

[gazz_bee]

then whats the point of not driving your car? this car will never be rejected as fiat will try to fix it. So just keep on driving and keep on bothering the service place until they change ecu or whatever they do to fix the other cars. if your dealer isnt helping, report them and go to another fiat dealer! Not driving your car at all, in my opinion, is stupid as only you lose out.

If the basis of handing the keys back is that the car is undriveable or unsafe, continuing to use it undermines that position.

 

[306maxi]

I did say this would get sorted..... I'm surprised it took this long, but it was always going to get sorted.

 

[MrDerv]

Hi guys,
Not that it applies to me or our 500TA, but where is the ECU?

I can see the battery, the air filter with the logos on and I can see lots of other things, but noting is stated as ECU.

Is there a photo of under the bonnet pointing to the bits and bobs other than the obvious?

Regards,
Mick

I'd like to know too

 

[JimbbobW1977]

Well I've only been driving for 38 years, and I have lost count of the cars I've owned.......... so what would I know?

But I will say that in my experience Fiat and Alfa dealers have been pretty good in comparision. But I guess I've been lucky.

My first brand new car was a Fiat. It was a 1981 127 1050 Super I bought from Carstins in Balsall Common (Nr Coventry) After all these years, and I've owned new Audis/Mercs etc, Carstins are still one of the best dealers I have ever dealt with.

I've had two Alfa's - one of the dealers would get into your list Wellfan . The other - Sturgess of Leicester were pretty decent, but not 1st class. Shame I couldn't say the same about the MiTo I bought off them though

My Panda will be used as my 2nd car, and it was VERY cheap (just £89 a month on a PCP) So maybe my perspective is not the same as some others, but my point is still valid and I speak as I find. To date the dealer I bought the Panda from has been courteous, professional and not at all dismissive. It's early days of course, and I reckon I've enough experience not to judge on first impressions - either way.

Carstins restored my faith in Fiat CS, after a load of rubbish ones...

 

[ahmett]

yes i am happy finally it seems things have been sorted.
of course, there is still some way to go before people with this problem go to the dealer and get the ECU's replaced/fixed.
i wonder how much money this will cost fiat?
and furthermore, has peoples trust in the brand been eroded?

 

[FinFerNan]

Gixxer375 that's great news and I'm pleased you're sorted. Let's hope FIAT get their finger out and this issue is resolved quickly now.

 

[306maxi]

I suspect due to the sheer amount of people with the issue, it will take a while for the ECU'S to be out there in significant numbers.

 

[muttleysdad]

Hi all,
Last week I posted that my car was going in to see the 'flying doctor' from Fiat UK.
My car, a 1.2 pop had the widely reported problem; poor throttle response, engine increasing rpm when clutch lifted and in gear, engine changing rpm when trying to hold car on a hill making hill starts dangerous, lag in throttle response when trying to move off quickly.

Well the 'flying doctor' from Fiat UK came, recognised the fault, (yes the service manager called it a fault!) and they changed the ECU for, (I was told) the latest one with the latest software.

The change to the performance has been dramatic. I took the car to my usual test hills and it performed like a normal car. It moved off on the hill at my command, at the speed and revs I wanted and I can now stop the car on the hill by depressing the clutch and hold it with the clutch at the biting point and move away smoothly by lifting the clutch and increasing the revs - just like a normal car!

I know some of you will want details of the ECU (part number, serial number etc.) but it is raining and it's dark outside so please be patient I'll get them asap.
I'll keep on checking it in-case today was a fluke and they've changed my petrol for rocket fuel or something, but it seems OK so far.

I hope this brings a little light to this very dark episode with Fiat.

Curious that it's the "latest ECU" with the "latest software". This would suggest that the latest software wont run on the current ECU, I wonder what's changed.

 

[306maxi]

Or a lot of things like that there's a hardware issue with the ECU's.

 

[ab4444]

then whats the point of not driving your car? this car will never be rejected as fiat will try to fix it. So just keep on driving and keep on bothering the service place until they change ecu or whatever they do to fix the other cars. if your dealer isnt helping, report them and go to another fiat dealer! Not driving your car at all, in my opinion, is stupid as only you lose out.

Thanks. Duly noted. But my actions, imho, are most certainly not stupid.

 

[ab4444]

Further update.

Received today a letter from the dealership which has crossed in the post with the one that I sent them recorded delivery.

General points that the MD has raised are as follows:
1) The car has only done 720 miles from new and has not done sufficient mileage for engine to reach its best in 'full power, torque, emissions and fuel consumption'. Best assessment mileage not before reaching 1800 miles.
2) He personally took car to local hill, from cold engine. He tested hill starts with engine cold and then repeated when engine had warmed; he observed improved performance and without 'undue drama' (no smelling of clutch plates).
3) There is a different technique required to get the best from the engine, and 'arguably more so in Euro 6 emission level engine than previously'. He is happy to demonstrate this to me.
4) Suggested that if there are any changes made by Fiat following Watchdog report it will involve 'software updates to engine fuel injection and ignition systems following exhaustive testing and development followed most likely by a re-homologation of the official emission test before it is released as a consumer vehicle update.' If and when any updates to software enhancement are offered, they will contact me and these will be done free of charge.

And he's offered to meet with me personally to go over various points and to demonstrate how to drive the car.

Mmmm...thoughts?!

 

[muttleysdad]

Further update.

Received today a letter from the dealership which has crossed in the post with the one that I sent them recorded delivery.

General points that the MD has raised are as follows:
1) The car has only done 720 miles from new and has not done sufficient mileage for engine to reach its best in 'full power, torque, emissions and fuel consumption'. Best assessment mileage not before reaching 1800 miles.
2) He personally took car to local hill, from cold engine. He tested hill starts with engine cold and then repeated when engine had warmed; he observed improved performance and without 'undue drama' (no smelling of clutch plates).
3) There is a different technique required to get the best from the engine, and 'arguably more so in Euro 6 emission level engine than previously'. He is happy to demonstrate this to me.
4) Suggested that if there are any changes made by Fiat following Watchdog report it will involve 'software updates to engine fuel injection and ignition systems following exhaustive testing and development followed most likely by a re-homologation of the official emission test before it is released as a consumer vehicle update.' If and when any updates to software enhancement are offered, they will contact me and these will be done free of charge.

And he's offered to meet with me personally to go over various points and to demonstrate how to drive the car.

Mmmm...thoughts?!

Video it please

 

[Super Uwe]

Further update.

Received today a letter from the dealership which has crossed in the post with the one that I sent them recorded delivery.

General points that the MD has raised are as follows:
1) The car has only done 720 miles from new and has not done sufficient mileage for engine to reach its best in 'full power, torque, emissions and fuel consumption'. Best assessment mileage not before reaching 1800 miles.
2) He personally took car to local hill, from cold engine. He tested hill starts with engine cold and then repeated when engine had warmed; he observed improved performance and without 'undue drama' (no smelling of clutch plates).
3) There is a different technique required to get the best from the engine, and 'arguably more so in Euro 6 emission level engine than previously'. He is happy to demonstrate this to me.
4) Suggested that if there are any changes made by Fiat following Watchdog report it will involve 'software updates to engine fuel injection and ignition systems following exhaustive testing and development followed most likely by a re-homologation of the official emission test before it is released as a consumer vehicle update.' If and when any updates to software enhancement are offered, they will contact me and these will be done free of charge.

And he's offered to meet with me personally to go over various points and to demonstrate how to drive the car.

Mmmm...thoughts?!

Well, at least they have replied at last in a professional manner, so that's a good start.

I would just take up the offer of meeting him personally to go through how they would drive the car. If they are convinced there is nothing wrong with the car then they will hopefully be able to show you in a live test.

Not really sure why 1800 miles is the magic figure though! Sounds a bit random to me, unless there is some sort of software-based "limit" function which kicks in until that mileage is reached?

Anyway, IMO I would reply, say thanks for the response and ask to arrange a date for you to meet up.

 

[FinFerNan]

Further update.

Received today a letter from the dealership which has crossed in the post with the one that I sent them recorded delivery.

General points that the MD has raised are as follows:
1) The car has only done 720 miles from new and has not done sufficient mileage for engine to reach its best in 'full power, torque, emissions and fuel consumption'. Best assessment mileage not before reaching 1800 miles.
2) He personally took car to local hill, from cold engine. He tested hill starts with engine cold and then repeated when engine had warmed; he observed improved performance and without 'undue drama' (no smelling of clutch plates).
3) There is a different technique required to get the best from the engine, and 'arguably more so in Euro 6 emission level engine than previously'. He is happy to demonstrate this to me.
4) Suggested that if there are any changes made by Fiat following Watchdog report it will involve 'software updates to engine fuel injection and ignition systems following exhaustive testing and development followed most likely by a re-homologation of the official emission test before it is released as a consumer vehicle update.' If and when any updates to software enhancement are offered, they will contact me and these will be done free of charge.

And he's offered to meet with me personally to go over various points and to demonstrate how to drive the car.

Mmmm...thoughts?!

Firstly, it's good they have at last acknowledged you/ your situation.

In truth, he's not actually offering anything other than a driving lesson is he? Any updates would obviously be "free of charge"

However, from a legal perspective, you have no real option but to allow them to try to remedy the situation, and therefore my view is you should meet and see what they have to say face to face.

Just ensure that any trial is where you had problems, not where he didn't.

Good luck

 

[FinFerNan]

Sorry meant to add.........

The ECU could simply be faulty, therefore there would be no need for any

"exhaustive testing and development followed most likely by a re-homologation of the official emission test before it is released as a consumer vehicle update..."

 

[ab4444]

Yes I think you're right. I have to give them the opportunity of showing me what they feel is the issue (which I admit right now feels very much like my driving but I'll try not to dwell on that).

I will arrange to meet him and I will take him to the hill I tested the vehicle on.

I'm unclear what I should do after that, though. Should I insist that they get this 'flying doctor' in from Fiat? Get the ECU changed?

 

[Palma500s]

Yes I think you're right. I have to give them the opportunity of showing me what they feel is the issue (which I admit right now feels very much like my driving but I'll try not to dwell on that).

I will arrange to meet him and I will take him to the hill I tested the vehicle on.

I'm unclear what I should do after that, though. Should I insist that they get this 'flying doctor' in from Fiat? Get the ECU changed?

At least they have replied but that seems to be about the only positive so far. Sounds like he will probably try to teach you to thrash the hell out of the engine before releasing the clutch. A method of driving quite distinct from that of any other car. You can then ask him why you weren't informed of the shortcomings of the car BEFORE they sold it to you.
It would be good if Gixxer375 could give you the name of his dealership so yours can contact them and find out exactly what they have done to his car that seems to have solved the problem. Good luck!

 

[FinFerNan]

At least they have replied but that seems to be about the only positive so far. Sounds like he will probably try to teach you to thrash the hell out of the engine before releasing the clutch. A method of driving quite distinct from that of any other car. You can then ask him why you weren't informed of the shortcomings of the car BEFORE they sold it to you.
It would be good if @Gixxer375 could give you the name of his dealership so yours can contact them and find out exactly what they have done to his car that seems to have solved the problem. Good luck!

Agreed on all points.