Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report

[zanes]

Hmm. A problem with the ASR would make sense, as that operates by reducing engine output if it detects wheelspin (so it is within the capability of that system to cause these symptoms).

It might also explain why the cure is new hardware- dealer level tools may not be able to reprogram it.

 

[FinFerNan]

It appears that the phone call that I was going to make to the MD of my dealership is now going to take a different tac.

Following Watchdog's programme this evening and the confirmation of Fiat providing a software update in the New Year, I will be advising this MD that I will be expecting my vehicle to be included in this fix (I do have concerns that his attitude towards this situation seems to hinge centrally around me 'learning to drive the car'!).

I will also be telling him that he will continue to have my car until such times as the car has received the software update.

As for taking a 'driving lesson' with him....this is a man who claims to have 'experiences of driving hundreds of different types of vehicles in vastly differing circumstances on every imaginable terrain'.

I dare say your contact will be on a differnt tac and I suspect you will enjoy it too

I must admit, I'd be tempted to play dumb (I'm good at that) and go along with his little charade, then hit him with the facts....... go on you know you wanna :devil:

 

[poggy]

I think that will be a amusing phone call. I don't know of any other manufacturers cars that need a different driving style due to being Euro 6.

I think the Euro 6 issue is probably when it started to affect cars, hence the Euro 6 link. So it might not be the emissions, but probably is only Euro 6 cars affected.

 

[306maxi]

Nah, there are Euro 5 cars affected

 

[MrDerv]

Nah, there are Euro 5 cars affected

I can't see Euro6 on my ECU anywhere, so i would assume it's a euro5. Registered in Sept 2013

However, to throw in the mix, we only have ABS, Not ASR/ESP or Hill hold, so this could be a peculiar problem

 

[jrkitching]

The more I read about this problem the more I feel its a problem with the ECU hardware, because if it was software it should affect every car.

:yeahthat:

The latest definitive fix came about after Fiat did a physical ECU swap.

I suggest we try to collect as many ECU part numbers as we can - if we can tie this fault to a specific ECU part number, I feel we'll have moved forward quite a long way.

Clearly the ECU on the latest cars is not the same as my S/S Euro5 - even the form factor appears to be different.

 

[jrkitching]

As for the constant bickering can that be dropped please. Its not helping, no one 'wins' and going round and round in circles helps nobody. By all means when the problem is solved the person proved right can have the last post saying I told you so until then............

Agreed.

This thread has now been subjected to a rather heavy editing session. If your post has been deleted, please note that I don't want to have to do this again :nono:.
Edit: some posts needed to be pruned for reasons of continuity & this comment does not apply to every deleted post.

Please also note that this thread is likely being viewed by a wider audience than is usual and forum rules will be more stringently applied. In particular, the use of excessive and unnecessary profanity will not be tolerated; posts containing such profanity will be deleted in total even if the remainder of the content is relevant.

 

[306maxi]

Perhaps some respect for people who've gone out and tried to find info would be nice also.

 

[jrkitching]

Perhaps some respect for people who've gone out and tried to find info would be nice also.

Yes, you're right.

A big thank you to everyone (including yourself) who's put themselves out to try to increase our understanding of what I am sure is a most distressing problem for those individuals unlucky enough to be affected by it.

For completeness, Maxi, could you please check & see if your ECU is the same form factor as mine and let us know what the part number is? A troll of ebay would suggest it might be 51847332.

 

[306maxi]

Mine will be different as I'm pre s&s

 

[jrkitching]

Mine will be different as I'm pre s&s

Yes, I know - I've a wider remit in mind for this.

I'm trying to build a table of ECU part numbers to see when Fiat changed the hardware (it's reasonable to assume different part numbers = different hardware). This could be useful in future for all kind of queries, not necessarily relating to this specific issue - and could help purchasers of secondhand cars to find out what exactly they're buying.

On pre Euro 6 cars at least, the ECU label is obvious and easily read by anyone - checking that all is as it should be could be a useful and easy check that anyone could do as part of a prebuy inspection, if we can collect enough data from different cars.

Drifting slightly but the label also shows the build date of the ECU down to day/year level - again this could be a useful check on a secondhand, prereg or even new car. ECU's are expensive items which the manufacturer will not want to hold for long; the date on the ECU is likely to be close to the actual build date of the car.

There are a lot of complete ECU/key/immobiliser sets offered on ebay; the potential implications for nefarious activity are obvious & the more we know as a community, the better placed we will be to help others in the future.

This wider remit is taking us off topic, but given what we know now, collecting ECU info from recently built cars is spot on as far as the current issue is concerned.

 

[306maxi]

Good thinking batman....

 

[ab4444]

Well then, Batman (& Robin) - following on from the letter that I received from the dealership and the update on Watchdog last night, I WAS going to ring the dealership but then had second thoughts. I wanted to put everything down in writing to ensure that I could acknowledge each and every point that needed addressing.

The letter was emailed and posted Recorded Delivery once more. I also copied in the finance company, Watchdog and also my case dealer at Fiat. Everyone has today received ALL copies of communications that have written (& received) from the dealership.

I have welcomed the opportunity for the MD to give me a driving lesson but only when my partner can also participate because clearly, he too will welcome being educated. I have also stipulated that we want said driving lesson on the hill that I have had problems on. Needless to say, I think it is highly doubtful that either of us will learn anything new other than some hot air and some excuses.

However, my case worker at Fiat has confirmed today that she is now working directly with my dealership to get a 'technical ticket' instigated, which will determine whether my vehicle is displaying the necessary symptoms of the fault and get put forward for the fix in the New Year. This is certainly the first positive step that I have had and feel a little more assured that the right people are now engaging in the solution process.

Perhaps it will start to ease the pressure off my shoulders, too.....certainly been feeling the stress of it all over the past few weeks.

 

[FinFerNan]

Really glad to hear things seem to moving in the right direction at last. Hopefully they'll get your car sorted quickly and you can put this all behind you.

But for now, it's Friday night. So a nice big glass of wine (or whatever your tipple might be) might be in order.

 

[ab4444]

Thanks, FinFerNan - I actually had a very boring Friday night and went to bed early with another thumping headache.

Aside from the obvious technical problems with my car, the thing that's been overlooked the most in all of this is the effect it's had on me; I'm a customer of a lovely new car that I've only been able to drive for 2 months before being forced to return it because I know that it's not right. And worse of all; being told by your dealership that you just need to learn how to drive the car properly. I'm not sure I can remember being treated like this before....

I hope that once all of this has been resolved I will love my little car again. My friend took a photo of it sat on the forecourt (at his recommendation because I needed proof that it was there) and I was surprised at how much it upset me. I had tried very hard to keep my emotions out of all this, but it hit home how much I wanted to be driving her.

I hope there are others now receiving support from Fiat and who are being treated like they are being believed....it makes a difference.

 

[jrkitching]

I hope there are others now receiving support from Fiat and who are being treated like they are being believed....it makes a difference.

Yes, the way in which Fiat are dealing with their customers over this issue is perhaps the most worrying and depressing aspect of this whole affair.

Customer service is as important in the 21st century as product quality was in the 20th.

Fiat didn't get a handle on quality back then, and it looks like they're not getting a handle on customer service right now. Were it not for the eye candy appeal of the 500, I'd say their presence in the UK market today would be almost non existent.

 

[ab4444]

I do have a very real fear that my little car won't be deemed suitable for the fix....and what I do if this is the case?

 

[306maxi]

I do have a very real fear that my little car won't be deemed suitable for the fix....and what I do if this is the case?

I doubt this will be the case

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Were it not for the eye candy appeal of the 500, I'd say their presence in the UK market today would be almost non existent.

Agreed.

 

[jrkitching]

I do have a very real fear that my little car won't be deemed suitable for the fix....and what I do if this is the case?

What makes you think that?

At worst, I'd have thought all it will need is a new ECU & reprogramming to the car - though I wouldn't be surprised if Fiat are working on a way of reflashing the existing ECUs to save a few pounds.

There is a fix out there, now - so keep pestering your dealer.