Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
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Technical Euro6 1.2 Throttle Response, Hill Start Issues & Watchdog report
ahmett
Prominent member
yes mention this forum and take a print out if you must. then call and ask fiat uk if you can have this upgrade too as you have this problem = )
OK, I think this moves us forward in both understanding the issue, and getting Fiat to acknowledge the problem & find a fix.
It's time to start collecting ECU part numbers (there've been a few different ones since the 500 was introduced, as a quick troll of ebay will confirm) - if we can associate the fault with a specific ECU part number, then anyone will have a quick way of identifying a car which may have this specific fault.
On mine, the ECU & its sticker are just about the first thing you see on lifting the bonnet - pictures attached.
I've shown you mine - now will fellow 1.2 owners please show me yours!
Month/year of your car would help also - what follows is a 2010 Euro 5 1.2 with S/S & the ECU part number is 51875964.
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They need to consult with Toyota. They must be the world leader in selling faulty/dangerous vehicles, completing literally millions of recalls
They must have very deep pockets. It's amazing how a reputation built on 1970's Corrolla's endures to this day. Umm and then VW's is based on the 1950's, go figure.
Anyway on a more constructive note I'll post the ECU serial numbers on our Nov. 2014 500's.
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Care to back this up??
Toyota are world ahead of most manufactures, in that they'll recall anything they want, even when not a safety issue. Don't confuse them with other manufactures who will refuse to recall dangerous cars until they're forced to, or who lie about the faults to try and play them down.
Hi all,
I’ll try and answer the queries and supply the latest info I have;
First of all my wife has driven the car again and to use her words, “it’s like I’ve got Bertie back” – she obviously called her last 500 Pop Bertie. So it’s still working fine, like a normal car should.
My dealer is Springfield Fiat/Citroen/Suzuki in Gateshead Tyne and Wear.
I asked the dealer about the work the flying Engineer did – they said he was a bit cagey when pressed for details only saying that he thought a software upgrade might be coming in January and was not forthcoming about what was causing the problem.
The new ECU part no. will have to wait until I get some daylight on it, but it looks nothing like the one in your photo’s jrkitching, mine is situated in almost the same position but mounted on a bracket which obscures the part no. and is long and thin with the connectors in line on top, not side by side.
Update: I’ve had Fiat UK customer service on the phone asking if everything was OK now. I said I was pleased the fault had been rectified at last, and pressed him on what was causing the fault and what the cure was.
I was told the problem was specific to cars without the Electronic Stability Control (ESP) system. So base model Pop? And that again he thought it would be cured by an update in the new year or when cars naturally came in for a service – unless they had complained and received a case number. So press your dealers there is a cure out there!
Mmm makes you think eh? ESP (stability control system) including ASR/MSR and Hill Holder. A system designed to do what? Take control of the revs/brakes!
“ASR to limit wheel spin during acceleration, MSR to modulate brake torque while changing down, and a sophisticated ESP to control stability through bends. Vehicles fitted with ESP also benefit from hydraulic brake assistance and a unique Hill Holder function to facilitate smooth hill starts. ESP is standard equipment on 1.4 litre versions, and a remarkably low cost option on 1.2 and 1.3 MultiJet versions.”
What if the car thought you had these functions when you didn’t? Would it change the revs to compensate for a disparity between the drivers input and non-existent sensor inputs? Causing a loss of power just where you need it, on launch. Just a bit of idle conjecture (the formation of judgments or opinions on the basis of incomplete or inconclusive information).
Will we ever know?
I’ll try and answer the queries and supply the latest info I have;
First of all my wife has driven the car again and to use her words, “it’s like I’ve got Bertie back” – she obviously called her last 500 Pop Bertie. So it’s still working fine, like a normal car should.
My dealer is Springfield Fiat/Citroen/Suzuki in Gateshead Tyne and Wear.
I asked the dealer about the work the flying Engineer did – they said he was a bit cagey when pressed for details only saying that he thought a software upgrade might be coming in January and was not forthcoming about what was causing the problem.
The new ECU part no. will have to wait until I get some daylight on it, but it looks nothing like the one in your photo’s jrkitching, mine is situated in almost the same position but mounted on a bracket which obscures the part no. and is long and thin with the connectors in line on top, not side by side.
Update: I’ve had Fiat UK customer service on the phone asking if everything was OK now. I said I was pleased the fault had been rectified at last, and pressed him on what was causing the fault and what the cure was.
I was told the problem was specific to cars without the Electronic Stability Control (ESP) system. So base model Pop? And that again he thought it would be cured by an update in the new year or when cars naturally came in for a service – unless they had complained and received a case number. So press your dealers there is a cure out there!
Mmm makes you think eh? ESP (stability control system) including ASR/MSR and Hill Holder. A system designed to do what? Take control of the revs/brakes!
“ASR to limit wheel spin during acceleration, MSR to modulate brake torque while changing down, and a sophisticated ESP to control stability through bends. Vehicles fitted with ESP also benefit from hydraulic brake assistance and a unique Hill Holder function to facilitate smooth hill starts. ESP is standard equipment on 1.4 litre versions, and a remarkably low cost option on 1.2 and 1.3 MultiJet versions.”
What if the car thought you had these functions when you didn’t? Would it change the revs to compensate for a disparity between the drivers input and non-existent sensor inputs? Causing a loss of power just where you need it, on launch. Just a bit of idle conjecture (the formation of judgments or opinions on the basis of incomplete or inconclusive information).
Will we ever know?
Both of ours have ESP, interesting. It also confirms how complex even basic cars are these days.
Top work mate :worship:
Wasn't properly watching the telly, but as I looked up I saw they were doing the feature from the other week with the Stig in Bristol.
Anybody see it at all? Is there any news or is this just going to be a permanent feature on Watchdog for the forseeable future?!
It appears that the phone call that I was going to make to the MD of my dealership is now going to take a different tac.
Following Watchdog's programme this evening and the confirmation of Fiat providing a software update in the New Year, I will be advising this MD that I will be expecting my vehicle to be included in this fix (I do have concerns that his attitude towards this situation seems to hinge centrally around me 'learning to drive the car'!).
I will also be telling him that he will continue to have my car until such times as the car has received the software update.
As for taking a 'driving lesson' with him....this is a man who claims to have 'experiences of driving hundreds of different types of vehicles in vastly differing circumstances on every imaginable terrain'.
Following Watchdog's programme this evening and the confirmation of Fiat providing a software update in the New Year, I will be advising this MD that I will be expecting my vehicle to be included in this fix (I do have concerns that his attitude towards this situation seems to hinge centrally around me 'learning to drive the car'!).
I will also be telling him that he will continue to have my car until such times as the car has received the software update.
As for taking a 'driving lesson' with him....this is a man who claims to have 'experiences of driving hundreds of different types of vehicles in vastly differing circumstances on every imaginable terrain'.
dieselglider
New member
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Watchdog confirmed these details on their show tonight. Also stating that Fiat said the issue has nothing to do with Emission settings, and that there will be a software upgrade, hopefully in January.
I'm making an assumption (which I expect will be confirmed once we have a few more posts & pictures) that the different ECU is one of the changes Fiat made on the Euro 6 cars.
So it looks like we have an easy visual check now.
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Our 500 has an 'ASR' button on the dash. Is this the ESP?
You get one with the other, but they're technically 2 different functions. ASR - Anti Slip Regulate stops the wheels spinning when you pull away and have poor traction, ESP - Electronic Stability Programme helps prevent the car from spinning out sideways, or from going in a straight line when turning hard (stop you flying off of a roundabout if you take it at speed for example).
Hope this helps
So if the cars that don't suffer from the software problem are the ones that have ESP and therefore ASR which apparently stops wheel spin how should we now view Maxi's scientific road test?
After all he climbed the hill with a rather impressive screeching wheel spin so presumably didn't have ESP/ASR but said the car didn't have any hill start issues. Confusing? I wonder who is correct. Fiat or Maxi?
After all he climbed the hill with a rather impressive screeching wheel spin so presumably didn't have ESP/ASR but said the car didn't have any hill start issues. Confusing? I wonder who is correct. Fiat or Maxi?
ASR doesn't work instantly. Mine will spin it's wheels. The system needs to see some wheel spin before it figures out that it's happening. It will then briefly apply the brake to that spinning wheel (all that is assuming it works the same as every other car I've had with traction/stability control) You may think that it acts in milli seconds but not so in this context.
The more I read about this problem the more I feel its a problem with the ECU hardware, because if it was software it should affect every car. I would also like to see maxi drive an affected 1.2 up that hill for comparison. Personally I don't think 3000 revs pulling away from a standing start, uphill is unreasonable. I understand that some people think any revs more than just above tickover is too much but that's not the issue here.
As for the constant bickering can that be dropped please. Its not helping, no one 'wins' and going round and round in circles helps nobody. By all means when the problem is solved the person proved right can have the last post saying I told you so until then............
I feel sorry for those affected by this and am so glad I opted for a Twinair, however now fiat has admitted there is a problem at least they will be looking for a solution.
And remember folks opinions are like aholes everyone's got one.
As for the constant bickering can that be dropped please. Its not helping, no one 'wins' and going round and round in circles helps nobody. By all means when the problem is solved the person proved right can have the last post saying I told you so until then............
I feel sorry for those affected by this and am so glad I opted for a Twinair, however now fiat has admitted there is a problem at least they will be looking for a solution.
And remember folks opinions are like aholes everyone's got one.
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