Technical Euro 6 1.2 - VVT & Interference

[Jodsclass]

Quick question.

We've always had old pandas. They've always been the 1.2 litre FIRE engine & I’ve always gone for those as it's a non-interference engine. I change timing belts on schedule, but it's always nice to know if it were to fail for whatever reason, the engine wouldn't eat itself. I've been reading the forums & noticed that our new 500s (2017) with the 1.2 actually has VVT. I wasn't aware of that. I’ve also seen on the forum that people are saying because of VVT the engine is now an interference engine. Can anyone clear this up for me. Is it still non-interference, or does this head change with VVT now make it an interference? If that's the case, I'll probably change my cam belt & water pump more often, as I’ve had a pump fail on the panda even when changed on schedule.

Thanks in advance for any information on this.

 

[jrkitching]

All 500's have had an interference engine since the model was launched.

 

[Jodsclass]

Good to know. This is the first 500 we've had, so I assumed they just shared the same engine with tweaks. Thanks for the info, I'll be even more diligent with the water pump & timing belt.

 

[jrkitching]

This is the first 500 we've had, so I assumed they just shared the same engine with tweaks.

And they do; it's just that these tweaks have changed a non-interference engine into an interference one.

Fortunately broken cambelts on the 4cyl petrol engines are almost never reported on this forum (unlike camchain failures on the diesels). That said, it shouldn't be a reason to defer changing the belt at the recommended interval.

What is often reported here are running issues after belt changes; the unkeyed camshaft & lack of timing marks offer endless opportunities to go wrong and get into difficulties, particularly if the camshaft sprocket is loosened.

Garages, especially those without specific FIAT experience, seem to be just as capable of messing this up as DIY types.

 

[Jodsclass]

And they do; it's just that these tweaks have changed a non-interference engine into an interference one.

Fortunately broken cambelts on the 4cyl petrol engines are almost never reported on this forum (unlike camchain failures on the diesels). That said, it shouldn't be a reason to defer changing the belt at the recommended interval.

What is often reported here are running issues after belt changes; the unkeyed camshaft & lack of timing marks offer endless opportunities to go wrong and get into difficulties, particularly if the camshaft sprocket is loosened.

Garages, especially those without specific FIAT experience, seem to be just as capable of messing this up as DIY types.

Thanks so much for this. The car will be 6 years old since first reg next month, but I’ve only had it two months, so trying to get the maintenance jobs in order of priority. It's only done what looks like 30k gentle miles with a lady owner, but I'll organise the cam belt when I do the next service. Are people still of the opinion to do the water pump at the same time nowadays? I've always done them both at the same time, but wondering what others are doing.

 

[jrkitching]

Are people still of the opinion to do the water pump at the same time nowadays?

Yes.

They're cheap, and since it'll trash your engine if it causes a belt failure, you'd be slightly daft not to.

 

[vexorg]

There are differing opinions, but if you can do it without undoing the cam sprocket then it removes a lot of the issues.

 

[Jodsclass]

Yes.

They're cheap, and since it'll trash your engine if it causes a belt failure, you'd be slightly daft not to.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to book it into my garage for this one because I've got an ongoing nerve issue in both elbows, meaning my hands and arms aren't the most dexterous or strong at the moment. I hate to put it in for jobs like this, but I'm just not up to it at the moment. Urgh!

 

[Jodsclass]

Hi Everyone.

Had a few quotes for cambelt/waterpump/auxillary belt replacement. Using non OEM parts, the cheapest quote is £459.71 and using genuine parts the cheapest is £579.59 – WTF is going on? My wife's family live in Scotland & we lived there for many years, so I have a trusted mechanic I use there. I also have one where we live here in Cornwall and both are coming in at very similar prices. This seems astronomical, since I last had to have it done on the panda.

The annoying thing is I bought the car from a well-known online retailer (think car & place where they keep animals). I've chased up with them to ask why it wasn't done by the previous owner. My manual says every 4 years (see top photo) but they have come back to me claiming it's every 150k miles for a timing belt according to their manual (bottom photo). That just sounds insane! I'm trying to get them to sort it, as a full service history should mean this was done.

 

[chris3234]

£570 wtf
Can't believe that's the quotes your getting

That's dearer then many min dealer would charge fore the job I bet

 

[Jodsclass]

£570 wtf
Can't believe that's the quotes your getting

That's dearer then many min dealer would charge fore the job I bet

Exactly what I thought. I had a water pump fail on the panda a few years back. Didn't stop spinning, but fins came off inside. New pump & belt at that time was £280

 

[jrkitching]

but they have come back to me claiming it's every 150k miles for a timing belt

That's ridiculous!

If the car is six years old and the belt has never been changed, then it hasn't been serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations, end of.

IIRC you bought this car less than six months ago. If the car was described as having a full service history and you relied on that when making the decision to purchase the car, then you may have a legal claim against the selling dealer. It's worth asking if they will contribute toward the cost of replacing the cambelt; in the circumstances, I'd have thought that a 50% contribution would be a reasonable offer.

Exactly what I thought. I had a water pump fail on the panda a few years back. Didn't stop spinning, but fins came off inside. New pump & belt at that time was £280

Sadly a lot of things now cost double what they did a few years ago.

 

[Jodsclass]

Exactly what I thought. I had a water pump fail on the panda a few years back. Didn't stop spinning, but fins came off inside. New pump & belt at that time was £280

Well, local main dealer gave me an even better quote. £798.35 inc parts, labour & VAT

Absolute insanity.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Been a wee while since I did one on either of ours so did a wee internet sweep. Good quality, Gates (my preference), INA, Dayco, etc, etc, kits with water pump and tensioner seem to come in around 65 to 85 quid depending on seller. Not that much different to when I last did our 1.2 Panda and my boy's 1.4 Punto - same kit on both cars. Has labour really gone up that much?

 

[Jodsclass]

Been a wee while since I did one on either of ours so did a wee internet sweep. Good quality, Gates (my preference), INA, Dayco, etc, etc, kits with water pump and tensioner seem to come in around 65 to 85 quid depending on seller. Not that much different to when I last did our 1.2 Panda and my boy's 1.4 Punto - same kit on both cars. Has labour really gone up that much?

This is the breakdown I got from my local garage using genuine OE parts

Labour £225.00
Cambelt kit £124.19
Water pump £94.33 - special offer at the moment
Aux Belt £23.97
Antifreeze £10.50
Enviro £5.00
Net .............. £482.99
VAT ............. £96.60
Total ............ £579.59

 

[chris3234]

It was only last year I was at a dealer to get satnav licence renewed and they had an advert for 500 1.2 timeing belt and water pump I think around £280

There's no way the price of this has more then doubled in 12 month 350 or so I could understand but not that much

 

[Jodsclass]

It was only last year I was at a dealer to get satnav licence renewed and they had an advert for 500 1.2 timeing belt and water pump I think around £280

There's no way the price of this has more then doubled in 12 month 350 or so I could understand but not that much

I'd be interested to know what others are quoting. Cheapest quote is the one from my Cornish garage at £571, Dundee garage is £621, local vospers fiat network here in Cornwall is £798

 

[chris3234]

I'd be interested to know what others are quoting. Cheapest quote is the one from my Cornish garage at £571, Dundee garage is £621, local vospers fiat network here in Cornwall is £798

That was at stoneacre cleckheaton fiat

 

[The Panda Nut]

Recently (6 weeks ago) had the Panda 1.2 VVT cambelt done and the total bill was £420. In that amount was 1 hour doing a cross threaded plug and at least an hour testing the cooling system for leaks so just the belt was around £300. It was charged at £60 an hour and the belt kit including water pump was around £110. Maybe the 500 being more awkward on space would be half an hour more but your quote is more than my main dealer would charge.

 

[chris3234]

I'd be interested to know what others are quoting. Cheapest quote is the one from my Cornish garage at £571, Dundee garage is £621, local vospers fiat network here in Cornwall is £798

I'd recommend an email to fist customer service about how you think you local dealer is trying to rip you off with a price like that for a belt see what they say

Hopefully they will get a kick up the arse from fiat hq