Technical Engine timing

[tiaf 005]

Hi guys n gals ive recently had a Fiat 500 1.2 8v 2013 model recovered to my house in need of a timing belt kit and water pump fitting.... Easy right ! Here's where it gets interesting...... So the previous guy doing the work for some reason removed the timing belt without locking the camshaft/crankshaft into place and the sadly got covid and passed away ! Anywho the engine has rotated and the timing at this point is any ones guess (sigh). Ive got both the cam locking tool and the crank locking tool but what i cant find anywhere online is a guide for the timing and since this engine has NO marks im stuck. If i find tdc on cylinder 1 which i presume is the one closest to the timing belt then the locking tool doesn't line up up with the holes in the crank ? Also how do i determine where the cam shaft needs to be since again theres no marks just the plate that slides into the end. So simply put all i want to know is how to start again and make it right. Cheers everyone

 

[John202020]

Have you removed the rocker cover? It will help you find where the valve status is

 

[tiaf 005]

Have you removed the rocker cover? It will help you find where the valve status is

Hi John yes the valve cover is off

 

[varesecrazy]

Somewhere on here..last 6 months'ish

Was a lengthy walkthrough of this job

I will try and link to it

 

[varesecrazy]

Older.. but relevant

VVT Cam Sprocket Help Required | FIAT 500 (2007+)

Afternoon all. I'm new to the forum and hoping for a bit of expertise if anyone would be so kind. Please forgive me for any etiquette mistakes, and I'll try to keep this as concise as possible while providing some background: Last week I changed the timing belt and water pump on my wife's 500...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[puntodeltathema]

The crank lock should go on where the pistons are all halfway down the bores (not TDC for No.1). A couple of knitting needles down the plugholes for cylinders 1 and 2 may help you (or the official kit has screw-in plungers which you can line up visually). But the crank lock also has a little hole in to line up with the little raised spot on the crank pulley, so it should only go on one way.

The cam lock should also only go on one way, in the position consistent with where the crank is locked.

Obviously proceed carefully in turning stuff....unlike earlier 1.2 FIRE units, the 500 (VVT) engine is supposedly "interference" (though I suspect possibly only when the VVT solenoid is activated for emissions-reduction reasons...?). Try and work out where each of cam and crank is in its cycle and keep them apart.

 

[puntodeltathema]

Actually, scratch the advice about the plungers, they're for the 1.4 16v. But I think the 8v engine should also lock in the same place, with pistons all halfway up/down. The little raised spot on the crankshaft pulley needs to be at about 9 o'clock.

 

[tiaf 005]

Actually, scratch the advice about the plungers, they're for the 1.4 16v. But I think the 8v engine should also lock in the same place, with pistons all halfway up/down. The little raised spot on the crankshaft pulley needs to be at about 9 o'clock.

You've lost me now ? So all what you previously said about cylinder 1/2 being half way does or doesn't apply to the 1.2 8v ? Or is that just the plungers ? Cheers

 

[tiaf 005]

Older.. but relevant

VVT Cam Sprocket Help Required | FIAT 500 (2007+)

Afternoon all. I'm new to the forum and hoping for a bit of expertise if anyone would be so kind. Please forgive me for any etiquette mistakes, and I'll try to keep this as concise as possible while providing some background: Last week I changed the timing belt and water pump on my wife's 500...

www.fiatforum.com

I shall have a good read through this thankyou.

 

[puntodeltathema]

You've lost me now ? So all what you previously said about cylinder 1/2 being half way does or doesn't apply to the 1.2 8v ? Or is that just the plungers ? Cheers

Sorry! Just the plungers (if you don't know the 16v that reference will mean nothing)! But on the 8v the crank lock should still fix where the pistons are all halfway down (or up) the bores - rather than the traditional "No.1 at TDC" position. Obviously there are two times per cycle of the crank where the pistons all pass half way, but lining up the little raised dot on the crank pulley with the little hole on the lock (at about 9 o'clock) means you shouldn't go wrong....

The reason for this locking point is that the pistons are safely out of reach of the valves, and one can then (but only then) turn the cam wherever you want. It's also the right place to tension the belt properly. But be very watchful ("feelful") for any resistance signifying piston/valve contact as you turn things before the crank is safely locked....and double check the pistons do indeed lock in that position to be on the safe side. If I was turning things over without a belt on I would quite laboriously be looking for rising cylinders (using a knitting needle or similar) and adjusting the cam to make sure the relevant valves were shut as the pistons came up.

You might be able to do a web search for the instructions for the Sealey locking kit for the 1.2/1.4 8v, which might be much more helpful than my ramblings....

 

[tiaf 005]

Sorry! Just the plungers (if you don't know the 16v that reference will mean nothing)! But on the 8v the crank lock should still fix where the pistons are all halfway down (or up) the bores - rather than the traditional "No.1 at TDC" position. Obviously there are two times per cycle of the crank where the pistons all pass half way, but lining up the little raised dot on the crank pulley with the little hole on the lock (at about 9 o'clock) means you shouldn't go wrong....

The reason for this locking point is that the pistons are safely out of reach of the valves, and one can then (but only then) turn the cam wherever you want. It's also the right place to tension the belt properly. But be very watchful ("feelful") for any resistance signifying piston/valve contact as you turn things before the crank is safely locked....and double check the pistons do indeed lock in that position to be on the safe side. If I was turning things over without a belt on I would quite laboriously be looking for rising cylinders (using a knitting needle or similar) and adjusting the cam to make sure the relevant valves were shut as the pistons came up.

You might be able to do a web search for the instructions for the Sealey locking kit for the 1.2/1.4 8v, which might be much more helpful than my ramblings....

Thankyou again for the reply i shall do this today and report back. I found a video on youtube of someone saying do this but this imo makes no sense since this way doesn't allow the cam locking tool to fit. Just thought id post it since ive tried it (I didn't start the engine) but it does turn over smoothly by hand

 

[tiaf 005]

Thankyou for the help. All back together as per the photos and as mentioned above.

 

[varesecrazy]

So all 4 pistons level ( midstroke)?


Glad you got it back running ok

 

[Ralf S.]

The Cinquecento (same family of engine) was timed with all the pistons at half-mast... if I recall.. .so I wouldn't be surprised if the 500 1.2 is similar.

Ralf S.