Technical Timing Belt?

[JD2023]

Hi All
New Member here so please be gentle with me

My daughter has bought a 2015 Fiat 500 pop couple of weeks ago
Service history is incomplete and it is a UK import in to Ireland has been in this country a couple of years

Current Mileage is 64574 in miles or 103923 in KM an no mention of the timing belt being done on the service book

However there is some White Marker / Tippex on the panel that says 617120 TH
In Ireland I have often seen mechanics write in marker or tippex but would usually say Belt or Tbelt & the miles
Any ideas on what the TH might be ?

Also I guess from browsing this site paper thin Sumps are common the oil is leaking through a kind of bubble of corrosion
Any point in trying to repair or is it best to replace / get the local mechanic to replace as my car diy days are numbered and the Gravel driveway is just a pig of a place to try do anything on the car
Cheers
J

 

[varesecrazy]

White paint would normally be on the Cover for the belt.. opposite end to Battery.


I suppose it MIGHT read
6/7/20 and tw.. but its still no guarantee


Best advice.. remove upper cover on belt.. look for yourself

Traditionally the Written Print on rear of belt wears away as is runs on the Tensioner Pulley

So bright text hints at relatively new belt

 

[TrevC]

Hmm, if it didn't have the 0 on the end it would indicate a fairly recent change. Any chance of contacting the previous owner? We were in a similar, part service history situation last year when we bought my wife's 2014 model. Fortunately the selling garage agreed to replace the belt and the mileage was written on the underside of the bonnet in magic marker. If in doubt, best to get it changed, and get the water pump and tensioner done at the same time.
Below are the before and after shots of the treatment I did on the sump. Its not too bad if you can get the front on axle stands, you can find suitable hard points on this forum. I removed all the loose rust with a wire brush and abrasive tools, treated with Kurust then sprayed with rust converting primer. Finally I brushed on a coat of hammerite.
It's also worth giving the rear beam axle, trailing arms and spring cups a generous coat of Waxoyl or equivalent. You should be well protected then from those "nice soft days" you get over there!

 

[puntodeltathema]

Import date perhaps?

 

[JD2023]

Cheers all
Will dig out the reg cert an see when exactly it was imported
ta

will also have a look at removing the timing cover top inspect condition of the belt

 

[eeeno]

If there are no records of any belt changes, now would be the perfect time to do it. If you plan to keep the car for many years, then it is very important to have it done. All need to be changed, aux belt, aux tensioner, cambelt with tensioner and water pump and coolant.

Belt wear can be quite subtle and you can't get your hands on the water pump to see if it has any play without removing more parts.

 

[JD2023]

If there are no records of any belt changes, now would be the perfect time to do it. If you plan to keep the car for many years, then it is very important to have it done. All need to be changed, aux belt, aux tensioner, cambelt with tensioner and water pump and coolant.

Belt wear can be quite subtle and you can't get your hands on the water pump to see if it has any play without removing more parts.

Yeah i remember that lesson alright
Had an Astra G some years back all 16 valves were bent when the belt let go :-(
Lucky enough i was able to repair it myself

 

[DaveMcT]

If in doubt replace the timing belt, tensioner and water pump. Also replace the crank oil seal because if that leaks your belt wont last long. Garages don't usually do this as its more time and cost.

Sumps are cheap. If it's rusting replace it.

I'm not a fan of waxoyl. My (new to me) Panda 169 was treated but the stuff has dried up, peeled and accelerated the rust. The spring pans are OK, but the nuts that hold the stub axles are totally rusted and will be a nightmare to replace. I also had one of the shock absorber bolts (bottom end) shear off. It's open ended so rusted solid.

I have a donor car so swapped the whole axle.

 

[TrevC]

If in doubt replace the timing belt, tensioner and water pump. Also replace the crank oil seal because if that leaks your belt wont last long. Garages don't usually do this as its more time and cost.

Sumps are cheap. If it's rusting replace it.

I'm not a fan of waxoyl. My (new to me) Panda 169 was treated but the stuff has dried up, peeled and accelerated the rust. The spring pans are OK, but the nuts that hold the stub axles are totally rusted and will be a nightmare to replace. I also had one of the shock absorber bolts (bottom end) shear off. It's open ended so rusted solid.

I have a donor car so swapped the whole axle.

Yeah, I think there are better products around, Bilton and Hamber do some highly rated treatments. I just had an unopened can of Wayoyl from my old car days years ago, thought I might as well use some. I will probably slap on fresh coats before each winter!

If the sump has surface rust but is sound, I think it's easier and cheaper to preserve it than to replace it, if you are doing the work yourself.

 

[Ralf S.]

On Rasputin, previous guy had tweaked the corrosion break-throughs with blobs of weld.. It was predictably as oil-tight as that sounds..

I replaced the sump. The only PITA-ness about it is the removal of the exhaust header. I can't remember whether the exhaust/manifold wouldn't separate or whether removing the manifold was the easier option but I remember I removed the manifold to get the exhaust out of the way..

The old sump will be glued to the crankcases with sealant, so when you try to prise it off, it will probably become twisted/bent to become non re-usable anyway.. so any sump-off job is usually a new sump anyway.

I sanded my new one down a bit to key the surface and gave it a coat of Hammerite (smooth aerosol) so it's better protected than the standard finish (albeit the one you're fitting is probably made in Lithuania etc. so may or may not be as good as the OE one).

The old sump, once de-greased makes a good voice box for Darth Vader impersonations.. so keep hold of it.

There's supposed to be a bracket on the header to the diff' casing so I replaced this at the same time. It wasn't too hard work, just a lot of unbolting.

Best to do it at the next oil change.




Ralf S.

 

[jrkitching]

albeit the one you're fitting is probably made in Lithuania etc. so may or may not be as good as the OE one

could it actually be any worse?

 

[vexorg]

I'm not sure painting the sump is enough, they go porous once any rot start.
I'm surprised noone came up with an alloy or plastic replacement for htem given how many must have been changed. You'd happily pay more if it meant never changing it again.

 

[Ralf S.]

The sump is marginally thinner/has flimsier metal than other sumps I've removed in the past but I'm not sure why they seem so much more rust-prone.

Maybe the metal quality isn't the best.. but the sump does seem to catch a lot more stone chipping etc. on the front so it could be the bumper lip design causes airflow over the sump that brings stones, chips, moisture and mud etc. My (over-painted) new one seems to be holding up well though so it could be that the OE one is just cheap and nasty..

Ralf S.

 

[jrkitching]

My (over-painted) new one seems to be holding up well though so it could be that the OE one is just cheap and nasty.

OE sumps may indeed be nasty, but they are most definitely not cheap.

Fortunately aftermarket ones are more reasonably priced.

 

[DaveMcT]

The 1.4 engine has the one piece main bearing frame with an alloy sump pan. The diesel has the same bearing frame but a pressed steel sump pan.
My Panda diesel sump had some fine surface rust but a quick blast with grinder and flap wheel sorted that. It's had a coat of zinc primer & Hammerite and will be protected by an undertray. You can pick them up for £40 (or less) on eBay.

It's said the steel sump can be a pain to remove. But all you need is a wide flat blade screwdriver. Remove ALL bolts, tap that into the sealant and gently lever/peel the sump off. The corner will need straightening but unless you go mad it's all good. I replaced the nasty old bolts with flanged socket head stainless screws. I may never need to move them again but should be easier next time.

Edit - A coat of POR-15 moisture cure polyurethane would be a better solution. It's pricey, and needs a waft of paint on the top to stop UV damage. But it wont chip like Hammerite and will outlast the car.

 

[vexorg]

But all you need is a wide flat blade screwdriver. Remove ALL bolts, tap that into the sealant and gently lever/peel the sump off. The corner will need straightening

Sure..... crowbar, monster screwdrivers, knife cutting into the old gasket where possible, and highly deformed sump before it let go for me.

 

[varesecrazy]

Mine was in 3 parts..small wonder it leaked as the oil warmed

 

[TrevC]

The 1.4 engine has the one piece main bearing frame with an alloy sump pan. The diesel has the same bearing frame but a pressed steel sump pan.
My Panda diesel sump had some fine surface rust but a quick blast with grinder and flap wheel sorted that. It's had a coat of zinc primer & Hammerite and will be protected by an undertray. You can pick them up for £40 (or less) on eBay.

It's said the steel sump can be a pain to remove. But all you need is a wide flat blade screwdriver. Remove ALL bolts, tap that into the sealant and gently lever/peel the sump off. The corner will need straightening but unless you go mad it's all good. I replaced the nasty old bolts with flanged socket head stainless screws. I may never need to move them again but should be easier next time.

Edit - A coat of POR-15 moisture cure polyurethane would be a better solution. It's pricey, and needs a waft of paint on the top to stop UV damage. But it wont chip like Hammerite and will outlast the car.

I think the exhaust gets in the way of easy removal on the 500. I will inspect my Hammerite finish before winter, when it will have had a year to deteriorate. The car only covers about 3000 miles/year on mostly local runs so I'm not expecting much chipping.
As the rusting is caused by road grit on the front and underside maybe stonechip paint would be the best finish, be it for a repair or a new fit.

 

[DaveMcT]

Sure..... crowbar, monster screwdrivers, knife cutting into the old gasket where possible, and highly deformed sump before it let go for me.

I uses a flat blade screwdriver at one corner and knocked it into the joint. I expected to need a new sump pan, so was not especially fussy. But as soon as the blade was in far enough to lever the pan from the engine, the silicone gasket sort of peeled away and off it came. My engine has fought me at every step of the way but at least that bit wasn't a struggle.

 

[JD2023]

Sorry taking so long to update
According to the Reg cert the Car was first Reg in Ireland 06-Aug- 2020
tried brushing off some of the rust ( did not want to dig too deep ) and filled with chemical metal as My daughter was going to a concert 100Km away
But did not make much difference after half hour you could see a small trickle of oil coming through but she made it to the gig and back without any noticeable drop of the level on the dipstick but it is something that needs to be done along with the timing belt
Thanks for everyones input
much appreciated
J