Technical Timing Belt?

[DaveMcT]

You "could" do this when you do the timing belt, but they are not connected jobs. I would replace the sump and do the timing belt another day. I used a Loctite silicone gasket replacer. It seems softer than the usual cheap RTV stuff and is quite slow to set. It gives more open time to get things lined up. It does need the roll-up key but the stuff works well but has not gone hard in the tube (less waste).

Head Gasket & Exhaust Sealant | Halfords UK

Repair exhausts and head gaskets quickly and easily with the Halfords range of gasket sealers and exhaust repair supplies. Same day click & collect available

www.halfords.com

 

[JD2023]

Thanks for the link Dave will put that on my shopping list
J

 

[JD2023]

Hi Dave
Finally getting round to doing this this week ( Hopefully ) as my daughter will be off for a couple of days
The link you posted above now just brings to a general sealant page :-( thought it went to a loctite one before
I picked up a new sump during the week and went to Halfords while I was out to get some sealant
but the only details I could remember were that it was a flexible Loctite sealant so I got this one
Says it will do for oil pan and it is flexible

Loctite 5922 Flange Sealant 60ml | Halfords UK

Shop the latest Loctite 5922 Flange Sealant seals flanges, fittings, connections & flexible assemblies from leakage at Halfords UK

www.halfords.com

Is this same as the one you used or do I need a different one ?
Thanks for any help
J

 

[John202020]

Pick up some "Brake cleaner" too, if you haven't got any to de grease any surfaces?

TRIPLE QX Brake and Clutch Cleaner 600ml - New Formula | Euro Car Parts

TRIPLE QX Brake and Clutch Cleaner 600ml - New Formula at the lowest UK prices from Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 for Car Accessories, Car Styling & Car Care. Buy today Online, In store or by Phone + Branches Nationwide – Next Day UK Free Delivery.

www.eurocarparts.com

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Hi Dave
Finally getting round to doing this this week ( Hopefully ) as my daughter will be off for a couple of days
The link you posted above now just brings to a general sealant page :-( thought it went to a loctite one before
I picked up a new sump during the week and went to Halfords while I was out to get some sealant
but the only details I could remember were that it was a flexible Loctite sealant so I got this one
Says it will do for oil pan and it is flexible

Loctite 5922 Flange Sealant 60ml | Halfords UK

Shop the latest Loctite 5922 Flange Sealant seals flanges, fittings, connections & flexible assemblies from leakage at Halfords UK

www.halfords.com

Is this same as the one you used or do I need a different one ?
Thanks for any help
J

Hi JD. The stuff I use is loctite SI 5980: https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ng/en/product/gasketing-sealants/loctite_si_59800.html Been using it for years on sumps, water pumps, timing chain covers etc and never had a problem. The descriptor for the SI 5900 is so similar: https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/fi/en/product/gasketing-sealants/loctite_si_59000.html and their part numbers are very similar so probably belong to the same "family" content wise, that I would be surprised if it doesn't work just as well. I started using the 5980 because it specifically mentions that it's tolerant of gaps and I was trying to get a seal on a cheap pattern made sump for my old Mk1 Panda Parade - the one in my avatar picture. Being a cheap pattern part it was far from a "snug" mechanical fit!

Sorry if I'm telling you haw to "suck eggs" but don't use more sealant than necessary. The last thing you want is large excesses of sealant getting squeezed out of the joint as you tighten it down, becoming detached and maybe fouling the oil pickup strainer! Good luck with it. If the old sump's still the original it may put up a bit of a fight getting it off. The original Fiat sealant can be pretty tough.

 

[steveras57]

Once you get "seepage" replacement really is the best option otherwise you WILL! be under the car again sooner rather than later!, agreed the metal is not the best quality! there are many different ideas as to what is the best course of action!.

In my case in made it up as i went along! by doing the following!- I roughed up all the paint with a electric wire brush, then i mixed up some glass fibre resin and painted it all over the new sump pan( being careful to get a thin even coating) and allowed it to cure overnight! then repeated the process again the next day!, once fully cured and hard! i then sprayed it with stone chip paint(four coats allowed to dry in-between!) finally i applied with my finger a fairly thick layer of r t v "instant gasket" to the leading(front surface) to create a resilient barrier to protect from stones and road debris! that was three years ago and as yet no leakage and no signs of any corrosion!, be sure to let the sealant you use to fit the new sump cure properly before re-filling with oil a trick i learnt on my old motorcycle casing is to apply the sealant then fit the sump bolts just above finger tight then leave overnight so the sealant cures then finally do the sump bolts up to the correct torque value which has the effect of compressing the cured sealant forming a effective seal!.
I agree that its a real good idea to do the rear beam etc at the same time!- i de-rusted mine and then painted with "Hammerite" followed by the stone chip spray! dont think you can totally stop corrosion here but it at least holds it off for as long as possible!

 

[JD2023]

Pick up some "Brake cleaner" too, if you haven't got any to de grease any surfaces?

TRIPLE QX Brake and Clutch Cleaner 600ml - New Formula | Euro Car Parts

TRIPLE QX Brake and Clutch Cleaner 600ml - New Formula at the lowest UK prices from Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 for Car Accessories, Car Styling & Car Care. Buy today Online, In store or by Phone + Branches Nationwide – Next Day UK Free Delivery.

www.eurocarparts.com

Between the 3 cars and the CB500X you will always have a can of brake cleaner handy

Hi JD. The stuff I use is loctite SI 5980: https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ng/en/product/gasketing-sealants/loctite_si_59800.html Been using it for years on sumps, water pumps, timing chain covers etc and never had a problem. The descriptor for the SI 5900 is so similar: https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/fi/en/product/gasketing-sealants/loctite_si_59000.html and their part numbers are very similar so probably belong to the same "family" content wise, that I would be surprised if it doesn't work just as well. I started using the 5980 because it specifically mentions that it's tolerant of gaps and I was trying to get a seal on a cheap pattern made sump for my old Mk1 Panda Parade - the one in my avatar picture. Being a cheap pattern part it was far from a "snug" mechanical fit!

Sorry if I'm telling you haw to "suck eggs" but don't use more sealant than necessary. The last thing you want is large excesses of sealant getting squeezed out of the joint as you tighten it down, becoming detached and maybe fouling the oil pickup strainer! Good luck with it. If the old sump's still the original it may put up a bit of a fight getting it off. The original Fiat sealant can be pretty tough.

Cheers Guys
From what I have read I am expecting the old sump to put up a fight alright
So I will have the 2lb lump hammer at the ready

Plan is to remove the radiator fan ( only 2 bolts )
That will give me access to the 4 bolts on the heat shield 2 lower ones I have already loosened with a 10mm ring spanner and they seem to loosen ok as a test
but very limited for space
I plan to just move the heat shield out of the way enough to drop the manifold I figure that if the heat shield bolts moved ok that the manifold bolts wont shear ( famous last words ) a liberal dose of penetrating oil should help
I will be doing it on the driveway with the car on axle stands and will leave the sealant overnight before refilling with oil
Wish me luck Ta

 

[JD2023]

Once you get "seepage" replacement really is the best option otherwise you WILL! be under the car again sooner rather than later!, agreed the metal is not the best quality! there are many different ideas as to what is the best course of action!.

In my case in made it up as i went along! by doing the following!- I roughed up all the paint with a electric wire brush, then i mixed up some glass fibre resin and painted it all over the new sump pan( being careful to get a thin even coating) and allowed it to cure overnight! then repeated the process again the next day!, once fully cured and hard! i then sprayed it with stone chip paint(four coats allowed to dry in-between!) finally i applied with my finger a fairly thick layer of r t v "instant gasket" to the leading(front surface) to create a resilient barrier to protect from stones and road debris! that was three years ago and as yet no leakage and no signs of any corrosion!, be sure to let the sealant you use to fit the new sump cure properly before re-filling with oil a trick i learnt on my old motorcycle casing is to apply the sealant then fit the sump bolts just above finger tight then leave overnight so the sealant cures then finally do the sump bolts up to the correct torque value which has the effect of compressing the cured sealant forming a effective seal!.
I agree that its a real good idea to do the rear beam etc at the same time!- i de-rusted mine and then painted with "Hammerite" followed by the stone chip spray! dont think you can totally stop corrosion here but it at least holds it off for as long as possible!

Yeah I had another go at it couple of weeks ago while my daughter was on Hol's in Yorkshire
I cleaned off the previous attempt I drained the oil and left it overnight to drain
Cleaned with brake cleaner
reapplied chemical metal and again left overnight to cure
painted with engine enamel & left overnight
Painted over that with high temp spray left again
Painted with stone chip / body schultz

Left for 2 days to dry and then refilled oil and it leaked in a different spot
So it has got to go

 

[TrevC]

Yeah I had another go at it couple of weeks ago while my daughter was on Hol's in Yorkshire
I cleaned off the previous attempt I drained the oil and left it overnight to drain
Cleaned with brake cleaner
reapplied chemical metal and again left overnight to cure
painted with engine enamel & left overnight
Painted over that with high temp spray left again
Painted with stone chip / body schultz

Left for 2 days to dry and then refilled oil and it leaked in a different spot
So it has got to go

Yes, once they are leaking there is no way back! The preservation exercise I did on mine was before any leaks appeared, so hopefully it will be good for a few more years. I still haven't got around to inspecting it over a year down the line!

 

[JD2023]

Old sump has now been replaced
Jacked up and put on 2 axle stands on the driveway
Left the front bumper in place and just removed the radiator fan
That gave me enough room to remove the heat shield ( one bolt broke off )
I removed the battery and Tray and removed the o2 sensor plug so I could remove heat shield completely out of the way
Soaked the manifold studs with releasing fluid and all came out with out issue

As had been suggested the sump did not want to budge and turned in to a bit of a mare
In the end I removed the driver side wheel and plastic arch and drove a very very long wide flat screwdriver along the join
Wow what a pain

The Loctite sealant was a little runnier than expected
I put about half the tube on
back under the car I tightened up the bolts till the sealant started to squeeze out a little & then left it for an hour
Then torqued it up and left overnight to go off
Next day filled with oil and went for a run to warm it up
Happy to say there are no leaks

 

[TrevC]

Well done, bet you're glad that job is behind you!

 

[JD2023]

Well done, bet you're glad that job is behind you!

Yeah dreading that phone call from my Daughter
Dad what does the red light with the Genie lamp mean and is there supposed to be smoke coming from the engine ?

 

[steveras57]

It means that from now on love you have to take your car to a"GARAGE"

 

[JD2023]

It means that from now on love you have to take your car to a"GARAGE"

What ? and spend my own money would be the answer to that

 

[steveras57]

What ? and spend my own money would be the answer to that

In that case take away the keys and gently steer her towards the bus stop!!

 

[jrkitching]

Dad what does the red light with the Genie lamp mean

It's the 'wallet warning light'

 

[steveras57]

Either that or the "Oil be in for some trouble now!" warning!!