Technical Engine swap. New engine doesnt start.

[RunarBolstad]

Has swaped engines. Same year, same type 2,8 idtd from 1999. The donor engine that I put in to my ducato camper van startet as easy as possible. I drove it to the place I did the swap. Now it doesn't start. Kinda nearly starts, but it won't run at all.
I've bleed the diesel system and handpumped diesel thru the system so it comes out in the top. No water in the fuel. Fuel are new as well.

On the dashboard there are a light of a key and code? Are there any starting barrier on the fuel pump?

On the fuel pump there are some wires (see image) what functions are these?

And lastly on the intake manifold there are also some wires and som diesel injector of some Kind. What are this for?

I also attach a videoclip of the engine turning on the starter.

I'm out of ideas. Please help.

Love from Norway

 

[the green vanper]

The light on the dash is the immobilizer light. It is definitely still active, so the engine will not start.

I'm not sure how it is in your Ducato, but I'd try to put the old van key around the contact, where you put the key to start the engine. Usually the antenna is behind the plastic cover.

If the engine will start, you'd probably need to replace the ECU, but let others confirm.

However be very careful with the fuel lines that are not connected...

The element in the lower circle on the 2nd photo, it looks like some kind of oil pressure sensor.

 

[RunarBolstad]

The light on the dash is the immobilizer light. It is definitely still active, so the engine will not start.

I'm not sure how it is in your Ducato, but I'd try to put the old van key around the contact, where you put the key to start the engine. Usually the antenna is behind the plastic cover.

If the engine will start, you'd probably need to replace the ECU, but let others confirm.

However be very careful with the fuel lines that are not connected...

The element in the lower circle on the 2nd photo, it looks like some kind of oil pressure sensor.

2nd photo lower circle are a solonoid for the cold start system is my own guess. That's because I seems to have the same wire as two temp sensors. On 4th photo you see the cold start system I guess.

Next I will check is the wires on 2nd photo uper circle and that they are the same color in both cars.

 

[the green vanper]

2nd photo lower circle are a solonoid for the cold start system is my own guess.

Could be, I'm not a diesel specialist. I'm not even a diesel fan

 

[Communicator]

Could be, I'm not a diesel specialist. I'm not even a diesel fan

It will not start because the key code is active. If you wish to retain the key code security you will have to change the key code receiver and perhaps all lock barrels.

Prehaps a simpler course would be to fit the code receiver, from the donor vehicle, and change the chips from donor to receiving vehicle keys. If that can be done then no need to change lock barrels.

Alternatively if not wishing to retain the key code system, which will be over 20 years old, then it can be removed from the injection pump, but there are security screws to grind out.

The device on the pump is the injection advance system, which is wax filled and is electrically heated when the engine warms up.

The devices on the inlet manifold are the solenoid valve and glow plug for the flame starter, which you may need below 0C ambient.

For more detail on cold starting see https://motor-roam.co.uk/ducato-cold-start-flame-start-system-explained

 

[RunarBolstad]

The light on the dash is the immobilizer light. It is definitely still active, so the engine will not start.

I'm not sure how it is in your Ducato, but I'd try to put the old van key around the contact, where you put the key to start the engine. Usually the antenna is behind the plastic cover.

If the engine will start, you'd probably need to replace the ECU, but let others confirm.

However be very careful with the fuel lines that are not connected...

The element in the lower circle on the 2nd photo, it looks like some kind of oil pressure sensor.

Do you know for a fact that there are some Kind of engine

It will not start because the key code is active. If you wish to retain the key code security you will have to change the key code receiver and perhaps all lock barrels.

Prehaps a simpler course would be to fit the code receiver, from the donor vehicle, and change the chips from donor to receiving vehicle keys. If that can be done then no need to change lock barrels.

Alternatively if not wishing to retain the key code system, which will be over 20 years old, then it can be removed from the injection pump, but there are security screws to grind out.

The device on the pump is the injection advance system, which is wax filled and is electrically heated when the engine warms up.

The devices on the inlet manifold are the solenoid valve and glow plug for the flame starter, which you may need below 0C ambient.

For more detail on cold starting see https://motor-roam.co.uk/ducato-cold-start-flame-start-system-explained

Thanks.
I drink coffee and are thinking.
So, another question pops up in my mind.
How does the starter barrier work? Are the sender/receiver wireless? The donor and my camper stand a meter apart. If I put the ignition on in the donor car, would the radio waves reach so my car would start and thus prove the these?
And which of the proposed actions are the fastest? And where are the receiver/sender devices?

 

[RunarBolstad]

"Alternatively if not wishing to retain the key code system, which will be over 20 years old, then it can be removed from the injection pump, but there are security screws to grind out."

But the fuel pump on my old engine works fine. Would it solve the problem to move it over then. And does that take more time then the other methods?

 

[RunarBolstad]

It will not start because the key code is active. If you wish to retain the key code security you will have to change the key code receiver and perhaps all lock barrels.

Prehaps a simpler course would be to fit the code receiver, from the donor vehicle, and change the chips from donor to receiving vehicle keys. If that can be done then no need to change lock barrels.

Alternatively if not wishing to retain the key code system, which will be over 20 years old, then it can be removed from the injection pump, but there are security screws to grind out.

The device on the pump is the injection advance system, which is wax filled and is electrically heated when the engine warms up.

The devices on the inlet manifold are the solenoid valve and glow plug for the flame starter, which you may need below 0C ambient.

For more detail on cold starting see https://motor-roam.co.uk/ducato-cold-start-flame-start-system-explained

I took the donor key and held it with the camper key when cranking. didn't work. So much for proving the these .

So how does this security work exactly? Where are the measures? Chip inside the key? Receiver in the ignition lock?
Signal goes to fuel pump thru wires or radio waves?

 

[Communicator]

"Alternatively if not wishing to retain the key code system, which will be over 20 years old, then it can be removed from the injection pump, but there are security screws to grind out."

But the fuel pump on my old engine works fine. Would it solve the problem to move it over then. And does that take more time then the other methods?

There is an electronic circuit board on the injection pump head. My understanding is that both that board and the code receiver have to be paired together.

Ignoring the code problem, if changing the pump it would need careful timing. Based on my experience on changing the belt on my 2.8jtd, need to remove engine top cover, belt covers, alternator belt, and crankshaft pulley before timing marks can be seen. Perhaps your 2.8idTD marks are easier to observe.

 

[RunarBolstad]

There is an electronic circuit board on the injection pump head. My understanding is that both that board and the code receiver have to be paired together.

I have both cars and keys. Fastest way to happiness would be? At this point the one thing that has changed are the engine. So either I have to move over the ignition key and the receiver as well. But how? And where? What must I do exactly?

 

[RunarBolstad]

Alternatively if not wishing to retain the key code system, which will be over 20 years old, then it can be removed from the injection pump, but there are security screws to grind out.

I think I can bypass the immobillizer with a hack. Its a solonoid, so its on and off i guess. If i connect the red wire directly to the 12 volt start battery. Would that override the immobillizer?

 

[Communicator]

I have both cars and keys. Fastest way to happiness would be? At this point the one thing that has changed are the engine. So either I have to move over the ignition key and the receiver as well. But how? And where? What must I do exactly

If not wishing to remove the immobiliser, then you will have to move code receiver from donor vehicle.

Then you will hve to exchange the chips between both sets? of keys, but start with one pair of keys.

It is possible to test at a halfway stage by removing the chips from both keys and then taping the donor chip close to the ignition aerial ring. Nothing to gain in time, but you would know that it will work.

If you do not remove the chip fron your original key, then the replies from both chips could interfere with each other and cause the immobiliser key to fail to recognise the key.

My vehicle is a 2006 x244. The code receiver is located under the steering column. Fixing screws and two small electrical connectors, the smaller one being the aerial connection. I have never had to dismantle keys, but I have readposts on the subject. I would start by prising apart, or by prising out the screw cover cap.

 

[Communicator]

I think I can bypass the immobillizer with a hack. Its a solonoid, so its on and off i guess. If i connect the red wire directly to the 12 volt start battery. Would that override the immobillizer?

Not quite. You have to remove the immobiliser reach the connections. Then connect the Ignition feed which is present directly to the pump stop solenoid. (The immobiliser cuts the supply to the solenoid, and it is not possible to connect to the solenoid without first removing the immobiliser.) Sorry but no quick fixes here.

 

[the green vanper]

USUALLY the transponder in the key is a small element with no external electrical connections, but with an iside coil, which is activated by induction. No radio waves, but close proximity to the antenna (which USUALLY is located around the contact) is needed. That's why I suggested putting the donnor key close to the recipient's contact.

According to ePER:

Variant 2 shows another form of ECU (no 1) on the diagram.

The question is if the receiver will get two signals, which one it will take into consideration. Or perhaps they will interfere and nothing will happen.

 

[Communicator]

USUALLY the transponder in the key is a small element with no external electrical connections, but with an iside coil, which is activated by induction. No radio waves, but close proximity to the antenna (which USUALLY is located around the contact) is needed. That's why I suggested putting the donnor key close to the recipient's contact.

According to ePER:

View attachment 452392
Variant 2 shows another form of ECU (no 1) on the diagram.

The question is if the receiver will get two signals, which one it will take into consideration. Or perhaps they will interfere and nothing will happen.

Quite possibly the signals will interfere. This was reported earlier this year on another forum by JimScotland. He experienced problems when daughters keys were on same ring.

 

[the green vanper]

Quite possibly the signals will interfere. This was reported earlier this year on another forum by JimScotland. He experienced problems when daughters keys were on same ring.

So, the antenna should be moved out of the way of the recipient's key. The recipient key should be kept in the contact, the donnor key close to the antenna

If the immo light will disappear, we're one step closer.

The test could be done with the donnor key only in my opinion. Hmm, no. The ignition has to be turned on, so moving the antenna out of the way is necessary.

 

[Communicator]

So, the antenna should be moved out of the way of the recipient's key. The recipient key should be kept in the contact, the donnor key close to the antenna

If the immo light will disappear, we're one step closer.

The test could be done with the donnor key only in my opinion. Hmm, no. The ignition has to be turned on, so moving the antenna out of the way is necessary.

But I think that it will be necessary to remove the steering column cover before moving the aerial ring.

 

[the green vanper]

But I think that it will be necessary to remove the steering column cover before moving the aerial ring.

Yes, probably it will be necessary. In the x250 it's very easy, a couple of screws from the bottom.

 

[Communicator]

Yes, probably it will be necessary. In the x250 it's very easy, a couple of screws from the bottom.

On the x244 there are four x No.2 Pozidrive headed screws in deep recesses which are not square with the surface. Fiddly to locate head recesses, and even more so when replacing. A length of tape wrapped round, a thick walled tube slipped over the screwdriver shaft is a useful aid.

 

[jackwhoo]

Least complicated way is to remove the part of imobilser that is on the injection pump. You will then just be left with the simple stop solenoid on the pump that requires +12volts to enable vehicle start.